locomotives idle for days, why is it OK?

[emarsh]

I have read that locomotives never shut down, something about cylinder heads warping. Why is it OK on their big diesel engines and not ours?

 

[K_Arts]

My father has been an electrician at the SP Railroad (Now Union Pacific) for over 30 years... I'll ask him what the deal is.



Kev

 

[EMDDIESEL]

We dont shut down locomotives unless the temp is 45degrees or higher and the Loco wont be used for more then 60 minutes. HOWEVER, this is what the rules say, its not what really happens. In most cases its laziness of crews (I am guilty of it myself) dont want to have to **** the unit down and shut the required breakers off and then have to do the reverse and have to walk back and start the unit. Also, alot of times you get units with bad batteries and have notes to not shut them down. If they are shutdown for more then 24 hours, by the book you are supposed to open what are known as "Cylinder test cocks" on each cylinder (Extremely annoying if you consider most locos have 16 or 20 cylinders) and then crank the engine to expel any moisture, THEN, close them all and startup. That procedure i have NEVER seen anyone do anyhow.

Below 45degrees we leave them running to prevent freezing since 99% of our locos use water as coolant and will freeze solid if shutdown in freezing weather. The alternative if you do shutdown in cold weather is to drain the water from the engine. Then when you need to use the loco again you have to find a water source (That is not frozen or shutoff due to the weather!) to refill the unit. Needless to say, that is a problem, especially if there is not another loco near by to tow the empty unit to the water source.

CSX (The railroad i work for) is installing what are called "Layover engines" in locos now which basically are small fuel effecient diesel engines whos sole purpose is to warm and circualte the water in the engines so they can be shutdown in any tempature without the fear of freezing.

Whenever fuel costs become more of an issue then normal, you will see loco's shutdown while sitting in yards. But most of the time, management is not enforcing it and they idle year round.

 

[EMDDIESEL]

OOPS!, it looks like on that fourth line i accidently spelled "Shut" with an I and auto-Censor kicked in, The i and u are right next to each other, Sorry!

 

[Doc Tinker]

We know what you're thinking



How many miles does an overland locomotive usually go on one fuel fill-up?



Doc

 

[EMDDIESEL]

Depends on the Loco, the SD40-2 is one of the most common, it uses about 187 gallons an hour at full throttle (904 RPM). It has a 4,000 gallon tank so it can go roughly 18 hours running. The longest shift you work is 12, so what usually happens is you are relieved at a refuel point. Generally we never let them get below 1,000 gallons but in most cases, they refuel them anytime it is convienient so they are ready for anything.

 

[KatDiesel]

Also on my trians in CO if you shut down a locomotive it will lose the DPU link. Which means the train will have to relink when a new crew arrives.



Most locmotives use strait water in the cooling system, reason being is the cooling systems hold around 300 gallons or so and water is just the easiest to refill and maintain, thats why they have to stay running if temp is below 40°.



The fuel tanks hold about 5000 gallons, I forget the exact figure but they use XX gallons per minute, I'll see if I can find it tonight.



My trains use alot of fuel going up the hill at Winterpark. . throttle 8 and sometimes they drag down to . 2 or so MPH due to the weight/power ratio... ... ... ... . but the great thing about AC locomotives is they will keep pulling! So sometimes they stall sometimes they don't.



In "my" timatable for the jobs I work... fuel conservation is NOT in effect Which means I don't shut down for much of anything. And west bounds that have a 55 mile run up a 2% grade most of the way... ..... I commonly tell them to fire up a 4th AC (only allowed to have three in power)... to get'em up the hill faster.



On the newer units... . 58xx series... ... they have autostarts. . its kinda strange. You move the units and this unit auto starts up.

 

[EMDDIESEL]

Fine Kat, go ahead and show off how your big $$ Railroad has all these hi tech items, remots starts like you personal car and they have DVD's in the cabs too i bet! (Just kidding man). Seriously, we dont have anything that fancy on lowly old CSX. We just dont have the grades you guys do out west. We do have modern units like AC6000's and SD80MAC's but not alot of R/C equipmet.

 

[KatDiesel]

I don't like the new units. The 58xx's are nuthing but trouble for my DPU trains, even tho they are brand new.



I only mentioned it because I heard a crew in Phippsburg, CO talking bout it... it freaked out the engineer so he was talking to another engineer on the radio. You hear some interesting things on the radio... .

 

[Whitmore]

I have read that locomotives never shut down, something about cylinder heads warping. Why is it OK on their big diesel engines and not ours?

I drove for flying j for a couple years and hauled alot of diesel fuel, we were told in the warmer months that whenever we could get to frontier refinery in Cheyene and pick up a load of RR grade fuel to do so , it had alot of sulfer in it and was 27 cents a gallon we would then blend it in with the main tank at the truck stop and the company would make extra cash on it... ... ... ... . Kevin

 

[Royk]

When I was a kid railfanning with my dad, we were hanging around a yard one frigid winter day and there were a string of locos sitting on one track just idling. We came back a few weeks or months later and the same string of locos were still there idling. We asked one of the railroad guys why the let them run constantly and his answer was simple: "Diesel is cheaper than antifreeze".



-Roy

 

[Dennis Garrett]

For many years on the RR I work for, they were only shut down for their 30 day inspection. We always let them idle all weekend on locals & some of the five day a week jobs. Not anymore, we have to shut them down now, if they are not going to be used for two hours or more. If the engine is on a train and needed to pump air, we are supposed to kill all of them except the lead, controlling unit. After a proper shut down, we have to do a re-start, and then kill it agin. If it doesn't start we call it in to the Mechanical dept. & they deal with it. We ususally use the newer GE's now, and our's are all equipped with an "Auto-Start" feature. It monitors about a dozen engine, electrical system, temperature, air brake & battery conditions, and if everything is ready, it rings bells for a moment, then shuts down by it'self, (If train is stopped, and engine brakes are set). Later, if some of it conditions require it, it rings a series of bell warnings, and cranks up again all by it's self. If it's the controlling unit, and heat or air conditioning is required, we have an overide button, that forstalls an Auto-Shutdown on the leader. If we sit in a siding for quite a while, all the trailing units might shut down while were waiting to leave. When movement is anticipated, I'll throw the reverser, and in a minute or two, we'll see smoke start coming out of the others, indicating an Auto-Start. It's similar to "Smart-Start" supplied by another vendor, and I've seen it on some of the older EMD's used in the yard.

 

[hammersley]

What about rust?

Ok Ok - how do they get buy using water only instead of an antifreeze mixture that supposidly prevents corrosion? I've seen rigs that only use water in teh coolant system -

 

[Dennis Garrett]

They use treated water, it looks green like anti-freeze, but it's just dyed to show that the water is treated. Sometimes you'll see purple too, but we usually see green. They drop a few tablets of this stuff into the overflow tank & it disolves. In EMD's it's almost impossible to keep coolant seepage out of the cranckase & into the oil. They will steam out the water, but if it has antifreeze in it, it attacts the bearing surfaces. When these engines cool down, in some cases, the cylinder liner can shrink away from the head, breaking the seal, and letting water drip down on top of the piston. An above post talked about opening the cyl. cocks on a cold start for this reason. I've seen a few that actually did squirt out a little water, but usually only a mist or a few drops. They say GE, which has a 4 cycle with a cast block & individual power assemblies, (instead of a fabricated 2 cycle) is a sealed engine, and can run antifreeze, same with the Cat 3600 series, but for uniformity, they are treated the same as EMD's. All of our locomotives have an auto drain feature that activates below a certain temp if the engine is dead for more than about 30 minutes. It trigggers a drain, and dumps all 250 gal or so of coolant, to prevent freeze up. Any fuel savings at shut down? Sure, between 5 & 8 gallons per hour idling.

 

[hammersley]

Neat stuff -

Hey this is neat stuff - we need a railroad thread!

 

[Steve Graham]

RR Diesel

Ok so what the differance between #2 and RR Diesel? Whats this about blending RR and #2 to run in our engines? I bet this is probably illegal if you get caught doing it.



Steve

 

[EMDDIESEL]

I know we order #2 fuel but all the suppliers just give us the cheap stuff. Railroad diesel is just lesser quality fuel for the most part. I talk to the tanker drivers and ask what the deal is with it and they say its #2 fuel, but it does'nt look that way. Looks nasty.

 

[Doc Tinker]

Locos must have some giant filters to strain the fuel then?

 

[98rammer]

a little off subject... what do locomotives have for transmissions? i can hear the engine immediately rev up sometimes, but i'd only guess that it has some sort of clutch system... .

 

[EMDDIESEL]

Three, a main strainer for the really big stuff and then 2 smaller spin on types that look like your oil filter on your Cummins.