Looking for experience towing PrimeTime Crusader 5th wheel with 4th Gen Ram 3500 SRW

[762vram2043]

I have spent many hours combing this and several other forums, have pestered a number of members of the forums, some repeatedly, and I am getting inconsistent answers. There are many many threads related to the clearance issue on a number of forums.

My issue is the clearance between the pickup (bed rails, tail gate) and the RV overhang. The top of my tail gate and bed rails sit 58" or a hair more above the ground. I'm told the Crusader (315RST) nose is 59 3/8 inches above the ground when level. I have auto level air suspension on the rear end. Dealer and Prime Time tell me to quit worrying about it, trust them. But I can't get specifics from them on how they expect to end up with adequate clearance without significant nose-up of the RV.

Before I go up for PDI and to take delivery I need to understand what is likely to be done and be comfortable that the result will be safe, not unduly risk damage to the rig. I don't see how adequate clearance can be provided and a level configuration of both the TV and RV can be achieved without raising the RV several inches. Modifying the TV suspension is NOT an acceptable option to me.

I have seen all sorts of solutions on the forums - Correct Track, trailer blocks, flipping axles, moving spacers in pickup suspension, adding new sub-frame, etc. But I can't get any indication from manufacturer that any of these would meet his approval. This potentially leaves me in jeopardy, not just with regard to warranty but with regard to insurance and liability should I accept modifications that the manufacturer does not sign off on and then be involved in an accident attributed to the modifications. Or if the accident is attributed to running nose up "too much" (e.g., uneven load on RV axles result in inadequate braking by the front wheels of the RV).

Modifying the TV suspension is NOT an acceptable option to me.

If it makes a difference I have 20" wheels. I add this because I saw at least one thread that stated DRW have smaller wheels.

So I'm looking for experience from someone with same or similar rig to get a reasonable sense of where this is headed.

Need compare apples to apples.

Appreciate the patience and help.

Thanks

Marv

 

[NIsaacs]

Just something to consider, when you add the pin weight to the truck it will drop about 3", I also don't think if the nose is about 2" high it will look or tow bad.

Nick

 

[Ram4Sam]

With the numbers you have, your truck and this trailer are not going to work. Flipping the axle will only raise the trailer around four inches so even doing that may not be enough. Plus, the axles on that trailer might come flipped from the factory, which would take away that option. Your truck and that trailer will require major surgery to get enough clearance........

Sam

 

[K9Kodi]

Why don't you just go to the dealer and try and hook up and see what happens. If it works, purchase, if not, go another route, but then you know for true instead of playing with algorithms and peoples words

 

[762vram2043]

K9Kodi

Thanks for reply. It will probably go as you suggest. Dealer is 90 miles from here so trying to get as much info before go there.

 

[Newsa]

What is typical acceptable clearance between 5th wheel nose & tailgate/rails?

 

[kthaxton]

6"
(this sentence is filler to meet the forum's 10 character posting minimum, I am an over achiever as this is way more than 10 characters)

 

[Jim W]

6"
(this sentence is filler to meet the forum's 10 character posting minimum, I am an over achiever as this is way more than 10 characters)

X2
I have raised this issue on this forum on the new 4th gen's trucks.

That's why I am keeping my third gen truck!

Nick;
Just something to consider, when you add the pin weight to the truck it will drop about 3", I also don't think if the nose is about 2" high it will look or tow bad.

How will this help the end user of the truck and new 5er? In my little engineering mind and being retried now I do not see this working.

My reasoning is the frame is so many inches off of the ground supported by the tires and suspension! The bed is mounted to this frame and the hitch is supported by the frame and sites in the bed! There is a relationship (distance) between the hitch capture plate and bed rails this does not dimensionally change correct? Now the 5er is attached and the king pin box sits on top of the hitch capture plate and the truck does sag but the distance between the hitch capture plate and bed rails will not change or am I missing some thing?

 

[shorthorn]

X2
I have raised this issue on this forum on the new 4th gen's trucks.

That's why I am keeping my third gen truck!

Nick;
Just something to consider, when you add the pin weight to the truck it will drop about 3", I also don't think if the nose is about 2" high it will look or tow bad.

How will this help the end user of the truck and new 5er? In my little engineering mind and being retried now I do not see this working.

My reasoning is the frame is so many inches off of the ground supported by the tires and suspension! The bed is mounted to this frame and the hitch is supported by the frame and sites in the bed! There is a relationship (distance) between the hitch capture plate and bed rails this does not dimensionally change correct? Now the 5er is attached and the king pin box sits on top of the hitch capture plate and the truck does sag but the distance between the hitch capture plate and bed rails will not change or am I missing some thing?

JIM... Do I understand you to say that the 4th gen trucks can't hook up and pull a modern 5er? I just traded off my 3rd gen for this 4th gen for the purpose of pulling a 5er... I would be really bummed to find out its not going to work.

Isn't there anyone else pulling a 5er with a 4th gen? Did you have to go to crazy measures to lift the trailer?

 

[Ram4Sam]

X2
I have raised this issue on this forum on the new 4th gen's trucks.

That's why I am keeping my third gen truck!

Nick;
Just something to consider, when you add the pin weight to the truck it will drop about 3", I also don't think if the nose is about 2" high it will look or tow bad.

How will this help the end user of the truck and new 5er? In my little engineering mind and being retried now I do not see this working.

My reasoning is the frame is so many inches off of the ground supported by the tires and suspension! The bed is mounted to this frame and the hitch is supported by the frame and sites in the bed! There is a relationship (distance) between the hitch capture plate and bed rails this does not dimensionally change correct? Now the 5er is attached and the king pin box sits on top of the hitch capture plate and the truck does sag but the distance between the hitch capture plate and bed rails will not change or am I missing some thing?

This is how things work in my neighborhood.........

Sam

 

[kthaxton]

I pull a 5er with a 4th gen......I didn't even plan ahead and measure, but it's been fine. The trailer may be a tad nose high, but I still have adjustment on my pinblock that I can utilize if I decide to. .

 

[NIsaacs]

How will this help the end user of the truck and new 5er? In my little engineering mind and being retried now I do not see this working.

Jim W,

The OP asked how to get enough clearance between the truck bed and the trailer and still keep the trailer level. Truck is 58" tall with the trailer at 59" level. If the weight of the pin drops his truck 3" he can drop his pin box 3" now he has 4" of clearance, if he tows the trailer 2" high on the nose, he can drop his pin box another 2" for a total of 6" clearance.

Nick

 

[Ram4Sam]

Jim W,

The OP asked how to get enough clearance between the truck bed and the trailer and still keep the trailer level. Truck is 58" tall with the trailer at 59" level. If the weight of the pin drops his truck 3" he can drop his pin box 3" now he has 4" of clearance, if he tows the trailer 2" high on the nose, he can drop his pin box another 2" for a total of 6" clearance.

Nick

My dos centavos.......Starting out with a level truck and a level trailer with only an inch or so of clearance is asking for headaches, which the OP says he doesn't want to deal with. Having to make so many adjustments to "manufacture" enough clearance doesn't always work out......been there, done that. I think your 3" drop assumption is a bit fuzzy.....My 5er has a pin weight around 1700 lbs and the truck settles right at 1.5 inches so unless the trailer is a beast with a lot of pin weight, 3" sag might be a bit optimistic.

Plus....and sadly.....the dealer will most likely tell him what he wants to hear to make the sale, and like most dealers, no refunds....

Sam

 

[Wertles]

I pulled a 43 foot 5er with my 4th gen. No issues whatsoever. No flipped axles, no blocks, no nothing. Once hooked up with proper bed box clearance, the pin weight leveled everything on its own. Take the hour and a half drive and hook it up then make your decision.

 

[MacPDX]

Auto level suspension = zero sag

 

[Cummins12V98]

Auto level suspension = zero sag

It really is a great option! 9,580# on the rear tires.

 

[NIsaacs]

Auto level suspension = zero sag

So this new air system maintains empty height or level height, or are they the same, no empty rake built in?

Nick

 

[MacPDX]

Normal mode is approx 1 inch high in the rear and tow mode is level on the 3500 as I understand it.

 

[Jim W]

It really is a great option! 9,580# on the rear tires.

View attachment 95051

What is the measured distance between the underside of the 5th wheel bottom and the top of the bed rails shown in your picture?
I am always a firm believer in at least 6 to 7 inches of clearance at this area!

 

[JSoloman]

I have a Crusader 260. I don't have any photos with it hitched to the '14. I can tell you that when I got it, I had to have it lifted 4" to have a comfortable clearance with the '01. The springs were flipped at the factory. The bed height is the same on the '14, however it doesn't squat down as far. With the heights of these trucks, you may reconsider and have the trailer lifted.
The photo's not the best, but you can get the idea of the clearance. If you are getting off the pavement anywhere or going over RR tracks, going over any uneven areas, it will be a must to ensure you don't pinch the bed. Just my 2 cents worth.