Looking for input and comments on Espar Vs Websto Heaters

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After a blast of Artic air here in the midwest, I am pondering if I should getan Espar or Websto heater. Looking for any comments with current owners of either product.

Is it worth it? Do you like it?

 

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Kat,I don't own either,but have researched both. Both are high quality units,the Webasto is the one that the big rigs use and is the largest selling one in the world. Both units have the same options available. Karl has the GP on the Webasto to fit our Dodges at a considerable discount. If the time ever comes when I can't have an AC outlet handy I'll go for the Webasto.

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95' 25004X4,AT,Driftwood,Banks Stinger,Warn fender flairs and running boards(Play truck)95 3500,5 speed,Driftwood,Banks&Phscotty,34,000 GCVW apple and tractor hauler(work truck)

 

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Originally posted by KatDiesel:
After a blast of Artic air here in the midwest, I am pondering if I should getan Espar or Websto heater. Looking for any comments with current owners of either product.

Is it worth it? Do you like it?

Have used webasto heaters for 25+ years on class 8 trucks and standby ( 500kw to 3 mw ) diesel generators. Just make sure you plum the exhaust where it won't deposit soot on what you dont want it on.

 

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I don't have any experience with the Webasto, but I did install an Espar a week ago and I couldn't be happier. It is a fairly long process to install, but the kit is complete, and everything fits just as it should. I purchased my heater form the Espar dealer in Salt Lake City. They are listed on Espar's web page. He sold me the complete kit with timer for $875. 00. While this is more than the Webasto, I believe it is a more complete kit. Be careful when purchasing, as I was quoted everywhere from $875. 00 - $1620. 00. These quotes all came from dealers listed on Espar's web page.

 

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I purchased my heater from the Espar dealer in Salt Lake City. They are listed on Espar's web page. He sold me the complete kit with timer for $875. 00

I talked to the same dealer yesterday - I don't know if it was just the blast of cold weather, or maybe he got in trouble for undercutting other dealers, but his price was no longer anywhere near $875. I was quite disappointed, since this is a pure luxury for me, and not something I am willing to pay anything near Espar's "suggested list retail". I totally believe the Webasto is equal quality; but I wanted some of the fancy electronics on the Espar plus I like the idea of pre-packaging all the needed parts in one kit.

 

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Can you plumb the heater exhaust into the truck exhaust for soot control?

These things bring back memories of the VW gas powered furnace. The VW units seemed to consume a lot more gasoline than the literature claims for these fuel powered units.

How close are the fuel usage claims of the Webasto & Espar?

Cheers;
-JE

 

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I love my ESPAR!
The remote control is a must. I hit the button when I wake up and usually find the engine warm enough so that the wait to start light acts like it does in the summer #ad


The kit and instructions are very complete, especially the harness which plugs into the dodge cab blower.

I was able to install mine without removing the tire or the starter. However don't ignore the bit suggesting waiting to do the job until the fuel tank is near empty. (ouch)

Fuel consumption is so low that I've never really noticed it.

WARNING: Don't forget to turn the blower control to it's low setting when you leave the truck. I made the mistake once of leaving it on high when I parked the truck. The ESPAR tried to protect the truck and did shut itself off once the voltage dropped, however once two batteries are sucked down and then the truck is allowed to get cold you are in DEEP DOODOO! A gas vehicle probably could have survived my mistake, but not our diesels. I turned on the key and listened to the fuel pump running at a sick speed. . the wait to start light got into a wild cycle as the ECM must have been shutting down/restarted as the manifold heater sucked too much juice. I tried to skip the wait to start and got the starter to cough a few times... . Finally I had to suffer the shame of having the wife's 91 suburban jump the green monster #ad
#ad


I am looking into some kind of isolator so that only one battery is 'exposed' to the ESPAR voltage drain. NOTE: the drain is really just the power needed to run the RAM's cab heater.

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99' SB 4x4 : DDI's, HOT PE, SPA dual gauge, ESPAR, Line-X OTR, Ladder bars, AMSOIL, etc (GPS,Cell,CB,... . )

 

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Mine's in, read my post in this section. Love it!

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Chris Timochko
AUTO WURKS DIESEL R&D TEAM
1997 5sp 4X4, Espar Heater, A. W. D. HX40 turbo, ATS 3pc Manifold, BD 4" Brake, Marine Compression, A. W. D. Custom Tuned Injection Pump, A. W. D. Intercooler, A. W. D. 370B Injection Nozzles, Delivery Valves, Governor & AFC Spring Kit, Psychotty Air, A. W. D. Water Injection, NOS Diesel Kit, A. W. D. 6" Chrome Exhaust System, BD No Smoke Valet Switch, McLeod Dual Disc Clutch, Mag-Hytec Rear Cover, Cummins Chrome Kit, Optima Red Tops, Hadley Bully Horns, Hurst Line Loc, Goodyear Wrangler AT/S 305/70/16s.

 

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Two days ago cold spell came here.
The temp hit -32 C Monday morning day.
Monday day, took 1 1/2 hour Espar running, as I was 1/2 hour late to shut it off because I was doing farm chors, when I get back, my hand
feel touch that entire engine is warm.
Off to shopping in town, Espar does very
good job, because when I get off truck for Xmas shopping, I simily push Espar heater manual turn on and went shopping. That was
-30 C. I have chat with my friend for more
than 2 hours, and bring my friend
to see my new Espar toys, and he enter
truck cab and see for himself, cab warm
does like summer. The outmarket inside cab temperture as I show him, it is 93 F. Saying it is great, and wish to have one on his gasoline truck. As I go many different shopping,
simply turn on Espar as many I want to. To
keep my as* warm.
I was surprised that Espar doesn't cut
off low battery when I get in at 1 1/2 hour
on morning day, and I should doing turn off at 1 hour, thought worry
that battery would be low would cut off
Espar, but it didn't. With my Espar,
can start from 20 mins to 1 hour at best.
Happy with Espar, havn't got error code
so far. Big Smile. .
I await for next -40 C +.


I find webasto website for Katdiesel, http://webasto-thermo.com/auto_tt_cz. asp

[This message has been edited by Lukocs (edited 12-13-2000). ]

 

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Lukocs,
Which ESPAR did you get?
What setting do you leave your RAM blower on?
What setting to you leave the RAM vent selector on?

I find that with my ESPAR if I leave the vent selector on floor and the blower on low or next to low that it will run the full two hours with no starting problems. However if I leave on high I am dead!!

The fact that you are getting to 93degrees suggests you have the blower on high, is that true?? I've never seen my cab get that warm.

Any chance you are leaving the vent selector on a setting that is commanding the AC (like the defrost setting)?? I wonder if the electric clutch for the AC compressor can be back fed if the vent selector is left in such a position. (no, the compressor can not turn as the engine is off, but the electric clutch might be drawing current)

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99' SB 4x4 : DDI's, HOT PE, SPA dual gauge, ESPAR, Line-X OTR, Ladder bars, AMSOIL, etc (GPS,Cell,CB,... . )

 

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David
Mine is D5W Espar, fan blower set to lowest,
vent selector to floor which is my favorsite. The result I get 93 F was when the engine get 1 hour driving is full hot and park at Xmas shopping for 2 hour. As when I went for shopping, turn it on right away before step out the truck, it won't hurt Espar heater as it won't fire but water pump does running when engine is hot.
Big difference is when the engine
is morning cold, not that I get 93 F.
I using remote sensor
indoor/outdoor, required use AAA battery.
It is portable device. Done checking with
house temperature against portable auto temperature device, about out by 2 degree.
So it is pretty close is what I getting.

Oh yes, that true, I turn blower fan into high, just kidding, no actually, it is lowest set. Otherwise set it to high,
and leave it for 2 hours, I probably asking my friend for help. No way.

I think you can try that one, turn Espar on
if your weather turn out very very cold, go shopping or whatever. Of course engine should be hot and back around 2 or 3 hours,
your temp should be hotter than mine because
when Espar kick in, it will turn on at low heat output like 8200 btu for D5W instead of 17100 btu, and your is 2 lower of which is 11300 btu and highest boost is 13400 btu and I think D4W should be more hotter than mine.
D4W excellent for short period time away when engine is hot like shopping. Try that one and let me know what result.
On other hand D5W is excellent for
morning start up. IMO
Most using windshield defrost, floor, havn't try panel/floor vent selector, I do think
it has low AC feature, so won't use that selector.

[This message has been edited by Lukocs (edited 12-15-2000). ]

 

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Cold morning startup, outside temp is
-24 F inside cab - 22 F, fired till
1 hour later, temp reading 53 F. It is
big difference between cold and hot engine.


Got bad news recently cold spell hit here.
Dodge Ram diesel owner around here as my 2 neighbour towing to
dealer, and 2 more trucks at same dealer similiar
trouble with valve broken. One 4 broke valve
and other 2 broke valve, the rest are from someone that I do not know how many valve broke. These
happen all 4 guys result idling engine over too
prolong time that when Monday Dec 11 start
cold spell came in here.
Either get fast idler or Espar is good
investment. In other word fast idler use
more fuel if leave truck for 2+ hour of which eating up your wallet. These Fast Idle must increase up to 1200 rpm otherwise bye bye your kiss truck is towing to dealer to
repair valve or trade for gas truck.

 

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In my recent tests, the inside air temp is far greater if I leave the selector in the recycle air selection so that you just keep warming the air that is inside the cab, not venting in new air. With the blower on the lowest setting, the truck is toasty warm after the Espar was running for just 70 minutes. I also finally ran the antenna wire for the remote up the passenger's side A-pillar and I get much further reception this way. I took my time as I am a perfectionist with running hidden wiring.

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Chris Timochko
AUTO WURKS DIESEL R&D TEAM
1997 5sp 4X4, Espar Heater, A. W. D. HX40 turbo, ATS 3pc Manifold, BD 4" Brake, Marine Compression, A. W. D. Custom Tuned Injection Pump, A. W. D. Intercooler, A. W. D. 370B Injection Nozzles, Delivery Valves, Governor & AFC Spring Kit, Psychotty Air, A. W. D. Water Injection, NOS Diesel Kit, A. W. D. 6" Chrome Exhaust System, BD No Smoke Valet Switch, McLeod Dual Disc Clutch, Mag-Hytec Rear Cover, Cummins Chrome Kit, Optima Red Tops, Hadley Bully Horns, Hurst Line Loc, Goodyear Wrangler AT/S 305/70/16s.

 

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Has anyone gone for the TSL-17 group purchase (Webasto) yet? Please give us a report on the installation!
The ESPAR claims to come as a complete kit, but the Webasto is hundreds cheaper. If we are talking about finding a couple of heater hoses and clamps at the local auto parts, then no big deal, but if I have to hunt down parts for an electric water pump to circulate the coolant, then that is something I would rather know at the front end since it would be eating into my savings.
*****************************************
OK, I found part of the answer to my own question: there is a complete installation manual for the TSL-17 on-line at http://www.webasto-thermo.com/pdfs/907512.pdf
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12/18/00 Update: After studying the Webasto and Espar some more, here are some things I'm noticing. (anyone who disagrees, please feel free to correct me, this is all based on reading the manuals, so I could easily be wrong about one or more details!).
1) My comment earlier about "fancy electronics" on the Espar appears to have been off base - I think they are using identical timers for control.
2) The Webasto has a little more "punch" to it, BTU wise. The Espar has three settings, and draws slightly less electrical power and uses slightly less fuel. Neither uses enough to be worth worrying about. The differences are pretty minor.
3) If you plumb it per the manuals, the Espar sends water through the heater core first, so it will be better at warming the cab. The Webasto warms the block, so it will bring the engine up to temperature much faster because the heat is all going to that purpose, not just warming your cab. You could probably plumb the Webasto per the Espar set up if that is what you prefer.
4) The Espar kit is already "customized" for the Dodge - you have very precise instructions to work from, prefabricated brackets, etc. The Webasto instructions are more "generic", but, remember, you're saving hundreds of dollars so you are being paid for your extra time & skill if you "do it yourself".
5) Both have option for remote control.


[This message has been edited by HC (edited 12-17-2000). ]

[This message has been edited by HC (edited 12-18-2000). ]

 

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Maybe somebody out there has now installed a Webasto heater.

I'm just looking for some comments from someone who has one in their Dodge truck and not a big rig.

Thanks.

 

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Cooker,

On #3 on your list above. Espar does send the heated coolant thru the heater core first, but just leave the blower off, and the coolant comes out of the core just about as hot as it enterned.

I'm more concerned with getting the block temperature up, so I never leave the blower on. I can get the temp gauge to about 150º-160º in 60-90 mins.
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Bill R
94 2500 SLT 4x4 5 Speed, 3. 54 LS, JRE 4" exhaust, Autometer Pyro, Boost & Water temp gauges, Bosch 215 HP injectors, Timing @ 14. 7 º, JRE Stage III #4 plate 270/675, AFC spring kit, Scotty Air, Bully Dog Propane Injection, Roadmaster Active Suspension, Optima Red Tops, Geno`s Exhaust Blanket,Espar Heater (won it!), Synthetic lubes throughout.



[This message has been edited by HEMI®Dart (edited 01-07-2001). ]

 

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I agree with HEMI, I am now leaving the blower off so that the engine gets the benefit of all the heat. The upside of this is that the engine is warm and I get instant heat from the vents when I turn on the truck.

Interesting thing I see is that once the truck is running and the ESPAR is off, the engine temp reading will slowly drop off. I assume this tells me the cab blower (on low with the radiator 90% blocked) is taking more heat from the engine than the Cummins is capable of generating at an idle.

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99' SB 4x4 : DDI's, HOT PE, SPA dual gauge, ESPAR, Line-X OTR, Ladder bars, AMSOIL, etc (GPS,Cell,CB,... . )
Green Monster

 

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I'm not disputing the ESPAR is a great product, and I agree with your ideas to leave the heat off to allow the ESPAR to be more efficient. I'm trying to save a couple hundred dollars (possibly) and maybe decide to install the Webasto.

Thanks for the feedback,
Ryan

 

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I think the bottom line is that the Webastos heater will cost less for a product equal to the Espar. That is if you are handy with fabricating your own installation and have the time. If you want a unit you can just pop in without any homemade parts,Espar should be your choice.

 

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Regarding the defrost, it was my understanding the fan turns on only after the engine coolant temperature reaches 30 degrees Celsius. I'm sure I read this in the manual, or some product literature. I always set my fan at lowest speed, temperature at highest, and setting for defrost. In the morning, I climb into a warm cab with a preheated engine and the fan blowing at low speed. I just assumed it never came on until the coolant was up to temperature. I will test my unit when cold and stand by to see if the fan turns on immediately. If it does, I will contact espar and raise this point, arming myself with their own product information. Overall, I am happy with the Espar which came in very handy during this year's Caribou hunt in northern Quebec. The only fault code I have seen is F14 (when I turn the engine on while the espar is operating). With all of its benefits though, it is difficult to justify the expense and I don't know that I will add it to my next diesel.