Lost both power steering and brakes!

[JRhinehart]

I was driving my 2004 3500 srw with 35. 5K miles on it towing an open trailer on the Tri-state tollway around Chicago yesterday and all of a sudden I lost ALL power steering and power brakes! I pulled over gingerly and popped the hood and there was fluid all over the drivers side of the engine, but I couldn't find anything wrong! I decided to go as far as I can, since I have I-Pass and didn't really have to stop at the toll booths, but I had to make sure there were no back-ups. Thanks goodness for electric trailer brakes! I dropped it off at a Dodge dealer and had the wife bring my gas truck down so I could take my trailer home. What would cause the loss of both systems?

 

[CIverson]

Power steering pump

 

[sheffield442]

My wife had the same thing happen to her driving our truck. but no fluid. my son check it out and i was the belt supposedly. the dealer warranted it and i think the pump also. had about 13000 on it about 2 months ago this happened

 

[JRhinehart]

But why would it affect the power brakes? Are the systems connected somehow, and if so, WHY? Seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[CIverson]

Hydro assist brakes. The power steering pump provides the "boost" to the brakes, instead of a vacuum booster like on gas vehicles.



It also could be the hydroboost/master cylinder setup leaking, which drained the powersteering pump loosing both the brakes and steering.

 

[JRhinehart]

OK, seems that there should be some kind of backup system. Good thing the typical Chicago traffic was light yesterday!

 

[WM-300]

Hydroboost Systems do have a Nitrogen Acumulator on them that should provide one (1) stop with power brakes. Look on the Hydroboost Unit and you will see a cylinder about 1. 50" dia and 3 inches long. That one (1) stop is with constant foot presure on the bakes till you stop. Applying brakes and letting off and re applying drains the Nitrogen Acumulator real fast.



Paul

 

[SS]

Yep - my bet is the accumulator bottle burst forcing fluid out of the power steering pump. If the fluid is replaced both systems will work fine... but, if you need to stop with the engine off, the accumulator will not provide any boost. Make sure the dealer checks the accumulator. My accumulator burst overnight one time and after I got refilled it with fluid and explained what was wrong to the dealer they said that's how a diesel is supposed to work. I asked them again to check it and they asked why would I want to use the brakes with the engine off. On the next trip I printed out the instructions from the manual (denied again. ) I drove it for a while, then took it back again - with the printout from the tech "that's how diesels work. " It got replaced with some help from the zone rep. Oh, did I mention the brake lights didn't work when I got it back? Idiots. Anyway, my point is: get it fixed because you may need it someday. Manual says three good pedal applies are required after the engine has been off for one hour.

 

[E2360]

Know the feeling

Same thing happened to me pulling a 31 foot 5th wheel down the Mass. turnpike. Not fun driving in a rest stop with no brakes and no steering(power that is). Hose fitting from the bottom of the pump blew.



If a number of us had this problem maybe we should be on the ntsb web site?



What dealership did they bring it to?

 

[E2360]

link from NTSB is to the national highway traffic safety administration.



link below is to form for reporting safety issues





http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm

 

[rbattelle]

I'm a little confused. First of all, I had no idea that little cylinder was a backup accumulator. That is very interesting information.



Second, is the accumulator nitrogen charged or does it hold a charge of P/S fluid? WM-300 says it's Nitrogen but DodgeTorqueWagon seems to indicate it's P/S fluid.



Very educational thread!



-Ryan

 

[B.G. Smith]

It is a cylinder with a piston in the open end with nitrogen or some inert gas above the piston and power steering fluid on the outer end. When the engine is running the piston is pushed inward, compressing the gas and giving a limited power assist for braking after the engine is stopped. bg

 

[ThomasLawrence]

OK, seems that there should be some kind of backup system.

There is... you. I've lost brakes/steering before (engine died at highway speed - nevermind why ), and even with 38" swampers, I was still able to bring the vehicle to a stop, and turn off into a parking lot, with just manual braking/steering. I certainly wouldn't want to drive like that all the time (really works the arms), but it's far from uncontrollable.



-Tom

 

[SS]

Sorry for the confusion fellas!



What I meant was that the pressurized nitrogen may have expanded to atmospheric pressure inside the power steering/power brake system - the volume of gas with no pressure is much greater than the pressurized volume in the small canister. This is what forces fluid out of the pump. WM-300 said it right - it's still a bit of a hot button issue for me (in case you couldn't tell) so I guess I was in a hurry to say that the part should be replaced if it's faulty.



Steve

 

[JRhinehart]

I took the truck to Miller-Krueger Dodge in Libertyville, Illinois. Talked to them this morning and they will bring it in the shop and call me back ASAP. So I should tell them about the accumulator? Will that need to be replaced also?

 

[SS]

It could be a power steering line blew off like someone else suggested. But if they don't find a leak, make sure they don't just refill the system and send you on your way. After the system is refilled I would ask them to run the accumulator test per the manual (start engine, work steering wheel back and forth to ensure system is primed, shut off engine, wait one hour, test brake pedal for three good assists without starting engine - something like that. ) Easy way for you to test it is to drive the vehicle very slowly in a large, empty parking lot, key the engine off, and try the brakes. If the pedal is hard right away with no assist, then something in the accumulator system is probably broken.



Also, I *think* the procedure calls for replacing the brake switch - it's not adjustable, at least on the 2nd gens. Good luck!

 

[JRhinehart]

The dealer finally told me what happened. Seems that the power steering hose was not bent correctly and was rubbing on something and rubbed a hole in the metal joint! More excellent DC quality control. They seem to be having problems getting a hose, hopefully I will be back on the road before the weekend, I need to haul another car and pucker my sphincter once again waiting for something else to break!

 

[Patriot_RAM]

I had one of the high pressure lines (the one with the "C" weight on it) blow an o-ring and run the fluid out.....

 

[JCasper]

If these hydroboost units are such a problem shouldn't they be recalled. My hydroboost unit is leaking and so is my steering box. This truck only has 42,000 miles on it. Love the engine, but I am starting to be very disappointed in the truck.



The dealer wants $725 to replace the hydroboost. What a ripoff.



Joe

 

[sag2]

These hydroboost units are not really that much of a problem. They are used on Dodge, Ford and Chevy trucks and there has to be millions of them out there. They occasionally fail, but most times they are replaced from improper diagnosis. Most dealers do not have the power steering system tester and adapters to check the system properly. They are all required tools but they seem to roll out the door in technicians tool boxes and do not get replaced. Clean, cool fluid is also a big help when it comes to HB longevity.