Lots of Blueish/Gray smoke

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Hi guys, could use some help - the truck is misbehaving and I need to get her fixed up.

1992 2wd, 152K miles, 5spd, 3. 54 gears. PW injectors 2 weeks ago, 16cm2 turbo housing 4 weeks ago from stabco, K&N, mild pump tweaks on the star wheel and power adjust (no diaphram tweaks) for about 4 months.

Monday filled her up with gas from a station I commonly use, added about 23 gallons so I was below 1/4 tank. Drove home, except for when I shut the key off, the truck would not stop. Fine, I can handle a fuel cutoff selenoid so I laughed it off, waited, and it shut off finally after a few minutes.

Tuesday morning. About 6 miles total into the new tank, just after a hard acceleration in 2nd gear (not enough to spin studded snow tires on pavement, so not very hard), the smoke started. Truck is up to temp, and still lots of smoke, at all levels of pedal. I get her home, rough idle, some seepage by #3 injector and what appeared to be exhaust blowby near it. I got about 2/3rds turn on it, hooked things back up. Also let some fluid out of the fuel/water separator. No more seepage, no more blowby, still blue/gray smoke, lots.

Drove to work this morning (today, wednesday), Power seems off just a little bit, more rough running than missing power, and plenty of blue/gray smoke at all throttle levels. When I floor it, I get the normal black smoke/haze that I normally did and the truck launches, but driving it around in normal traffic it is spewing the blue/gray stuff all over the place.

This all seems to correspond to the tank of gas (and a car wash), but the selenoid going at the same time has me worried. I did put some STP Diesel Treatment (sorry, all they had) in this morning, no change.

Would a bad injector emit smoke of this color? It should be black, shouldn't it? Could that injector be fried that came out 2/3rds turn? Could the shutoff selenoid be part of this?

Thanks folks, I appreciate all your help, and all the great posts here.

Jon.

 

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Sounds scarry, you may have got bad fuel, possibly mixed with something. But I would most likely suspect that your engine is running on lubricating oil. This can happen if the turbo seals are leaking and would account for the problem shutting down the engine. Check the turbo compressor outlet for oil residue. It would seem from the size of the oil line going to the turbo that it has plenty of oil flowing through it, could it be possible that the return line is partialy blocked. (gasket pieces?) I don't know if the problem with the loose injector would have anything to do with the smoke problem, but the manual says that a restricted or damaged injector nozzle will make black smoke. Also there is a manual shutdown located on the injection pump, just bellow the idle adj. screw.

Neil

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Neil Copeman 92 D250,LE,limited slip, 16cm turbo housing, Isspro gauges, factory tach option, Lear cap, DC crankdown tire carrier
Hadley air horns, Stealhorse leather seats, e-mail (home): <bombedcummins@sympatico. ca> (link at top is work address)

 

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Brilliant.

That makes sense I think in this situation. Sitting there, key off, idling, the smoke is definately more blueish/gray then when running on diesel fuel. I'll check the high pressure turbo outlet, that should be oily enough to let me know.

It also eventually shuts off when left to idle there, possibly not enough vacuum to pull lubricating oil through the tube. I'll verify this by using the manual shutoff you mentioned.

Thanks again Neil, and thanks in advance for any other theories folks care to share. I gotta get her home from work, but then I'll take a look.

jon.

 

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Can't help much with the problem but it seems like the problem has to be related to the fact that you just got new fuel when the problem started. It's just too coincidential!! I would go back to the station and try to find out if any one else has a had a problem. They probably won't say unless you know them well.

There was a station out here a few years back that had the same sort of thing happen and it turned out to be water contamination.

Have you tried draining the water separator?

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Stan
93 2WD extended cab, Banks Power Pack, K&N Air Filter, PW Injectors,Auto w/4. 10 rear with limited slip, US Gear Exhaust Brake, 31/2" Exhaust, 5K air bags, Boost/Pyro/Tach Gauges, Green/Silver, new 40-20-40 bucket seats, 149K

 

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Thanks Stan, I will stop by the station and see if they will volunteer some info, don't really know folks there though but it is worth a shot on checking for bad gas. I did
let water out of the separator. Except for the truck running while the key is turned off once, this whole problem started after fueling up.

Took a look at the air intake between the turbo and intercooler, and between the intercooler and the intake manifold.

Wiping a paper towel in there results in black residue. Not tons of it, just some. Nothing oily and terribly messy. Air filter side of the intake is clean. How much residue should be in there? None? Some? I spun the turbo fan while I had the hoses off, spun quietly and freely.

This problem seems to be much worse when cold and not as bad as the truck warms up. The truck only ran after the key was turned off once today out of three same length drives, and shut itself off after a minute so I was not able to get to the manual shut off.

Could this be a head gasket? Or oil getting in a valve seal? Oil level is normal. Coolant level seems normal. Lots of smoke when cold, then it gets more tolerable as I drive and get it up to temp. Power is fine, runs rough at idle and low rpms though.

Thanks again for any ideas how to check more of this.

Jon

 

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Jon it's good to hear that the turbo seems ok, I am going to give you the information from the chart in the service manual:
-improper fuel
-air in fuel system
-intercooler internally blocked or leaking
-restricted or blocked fuel injection lines
-incorrect injection pump timing
-restricted or damaged injector nozzle
-clogged or restricted air filter
-air fuel control tube leaking or broken
-low manifold pressure
-injection sequence does not correspond with firing order
-low or uneven engine compression
-injection pump to engine timing
-fuel injection pump malfunction or not adjustable


Hope it's only the fuel, a few independant stations where I live got caught mixing solvent waste into the gasoline they were selling. It completely ruined several fuel injection systems, before someone figured it out. Would suggest that you save a sample of the fuel in your tank just in case.

Neil

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Neil Copeman 92 D250,LE,limited slip, 16cm turbo housing, Isspro gauges, factory tach option, Lear cap, DC crankdown tire carrier
Hadley air horns, Stealhorse leather seats, e-mail (home): <bombedcummins@sympatico. ca> (link at top is work address)

 

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Thanks again,

This list gives me an attack plan. I will eliminate the fuel first (and keep a sample for sure), and go from there. Gotta figure out a way to get 20 gallons out of the pig and go refill somewhere else.

I'll post when I know more,
jon.

 

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Jon, I had to drain the tank on my truck last spring. I disconnected the filler and air vent hoses at the tank and then siphoned the tank. It took some time, but on a nice sunny day it wasn't too bad.
The reason for disconnecting the hoses at the tank, is that the filler hose has a round ball which will prevent you from putting a hose down into the tank. If you have an old hose and ball assembly (without the fittings on the end of the hoses) that they use on outboard motors - this makes a good siphon.
---
Al

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92-LE,4x4,5spd,3. 54,Borgeson steering shaft, Tach,Isspro Pyro & Boost, 16cm2, PW injectors

 

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I really hate to pull out the rain clouds but it sounds like its running on coolant from a cracked head or cylinder. Buddies 6. 2 ran for a full 2 mins on coolant and oil before it exploded. Rebuilt the engine, replaced cracked heads and it still blew blue smoke. Had the block magna-fluxed to find a cracked cylinder wall.
Light blue could mean coolant #ad
. Lets all hope its bad fuel!!!!

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Jason Hoffman
Lil' Mack - 89 D250LE 5 Spd 3. 54 Reg Cab. K&N,"tweaked pump", BD Injectors, Banks Pyro/Boost, 3. 5" Exst tail section straight. E&M Custom seats. Bosch H4, PIAA 80W/80W HdLites. 100W Drv,55W Fogs. 237,500 miles (380,000 Kms) 7850 Hrs.
Cummins Power Booster member.
The Original Turbo Diesel

Lil' Mack Pics

 

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Man, I hate those #ad
when they pertain to the wrong color smoke coming out the pipe! I'll keep a close eye on oil/coolant, should see some impact there eventually. Can't drive it really though, it really smokes folks out when in traffic.

Gas station claims no-one else had a problem with diesel fuel near when I filled up, though that doesn't rule it out I suppose, so I'll drain and refill and go from there.

Hate to keep asking, my ignorance requires it though - is pulling the head pretty much the only way to determine a head/head gasket problem?

Thanks for all the help guys,
jon

 

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Jon, you can check for symptoms of a head gasket leak by looking for bubbles in the coolant, while the engine is running. There is a device that can be used to detect combustion gasses in the engine coolant, Snap On has one, part# GA170B. Most garages should have one of these. The bubble method usualy works fairly well, the leak detector will normally find the tiniest of leaks. If your engine is burning enough coolant to smoke badly it should drop the fluid levels (coolant and oil) rather quickly, you would also probably notice oil mixed in with the coolant, and if it is real bad coolant in the oil. If you find coolant in the oil don't run the engine it will deystroy the bearings, this is why we put in plain water to test for leaks in a newly built motor.


Neil

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Neil Copeman 92 D250,LE,limited slip, 16cm turbo housing, Isspro gauges, factory tach option, Lear cap, DC crankdown tire carrier
Hadley air horns, Stealhorse leather seats, e-mail (home): <bombedcummins@sympatico. ca> (link at top is work address)

 

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I won't jump to any conclusions until you know about the fuel. Get some good diesel in it and change the fuel filter. You did say you are not loosing any oil or antifreeze right ? Also check you temps. , are they any higher? It is a good idea to check for bubbles, but don't forget to check for system pressure first, no one likes a hot antifreeze bath. If by chance you do have a blown head gasket the pressures will be even higher yet. If the fuel is bad , get with you states government and raise cain, you might save someone else the grief later on. Its rare when a gas station will fix the problem without some arm twisting #ad


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1985 DODGE 1 ton Crew Cab(imported from California with no rust) W/8' box converted to 4X4(wasn't that hard to do!) in 1999,converted to a 1991 Cummins Turbo diesel & 5 speed Getrag in 2000(wife can't drive a stick . 4:10 gears, limited slip rear end, 205 transfer case, 16" Goodyear GSA Wranglers and LE Package and a Sony CD Stereo. A one of a kind truck(Wish Dodge would build a new Crew Cab in 1 ton. Last year for the Crew Cab was 1985)If you want to know why I did all of this, 2 kids, one on the way and I can't stand Ford and Chevy. Kyle Hoover ,Fruitport, MI

 

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I've been watching engine temp and oil pressure closely since this started, no change on the factory gauges. I have no EGT or other gauges to see a variation anywhere else.

Coolant and oil levels do not appear to have changed, nor have their color. I tend to check the oil an awful lot more than the coolant, so I need to get more scientific about watching for change there.

I'll be checking for bubbles and use a white cloth to see if oil is floating in the coolant tonight, but may have to wait for the weekend to get the fuel/filter swapped.

BTW. Nice truck CrewCabDiesel!

thanks for all the help everyone, it gives me quite a bit to move forward on to figure this out. Jon.

 

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Good news. Got all the fuel out last night, what a treat, but worth the nasty job. No more smoking (except for the black stuff that mysteriously corresponds with mashing the pedal!). About 30 miles on it (20 miles on the new filter). Still a small rough spot, but the blue smoke reduction is so dramatic that it had to be the issue. I have 18 gallons of fuel for sale, cheap. The 19th gallon is going to get scrutinized by the station if they want. The 20th is going to get it by the regulators if I can get their attention. I have no empty gas cans.

However. Looks like I had another problem occur almost the same time as the bad gas. The truck still sometimes runs after the key is shut off. The manual shutoff works just fine. I am hoping it is simply the selenoid or the wire going to it, or even the ignition switch, and not pieces of the injection pump causing it to stick as I have read in here before... .

So good news, and hopefully just an electrical part. Dealer here wants $130 for the selenoid. I bet I can do a little better through TDR...

Later, thanks again, jon.

 

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Right on, good to hear thats all it was. Try another fuel stop. Scope out a station that sells a fair volume of Diesel fuel on separate pumps. This way you always get the fresh stuff, pure and clean. #ad


Jeh

 

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That good news brought a sigh of relief and I don't even own the truck! Bet you feel a lot better now and can sleep tonight! #ad


Get some good injector cleaner in the fuel and see if that helps get things back on a smooth track.

Stan

[This message has been edited by paccool (edited 12-08-2000). ]

 

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Its GOOD to hear that it was only S**T Diesel. Id give that station heck, make them pay for your time and grief, try getting in touch with the state and maybe even a news paper or tv. If I were you,I would get a Cummins service center to make sure there are no other problems resulting, could be a wise investment in a hours labor! Also change the fuel filter again in about 500 miles. #ad

 

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Jon, that is good news. I hope you have a bill of sale - then go after them. That's what I did and they paid for a pump and injector inspection plus one tank full of diesel.
---
Al

 

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Got the receipt. Has the date, pump number, type of fuel, the whole thing.

I'll give them the chance to do the right thing first. Any sign of hesitation will result in a seriously miserable existence for the management, area reps, Conoco corporate, etc. until the right thing is done.

If it prevents other oil-burner's from going through the mess, hassle, time, and expense of bad fuel, my time is worth it. The support on this page makes that evident.

thanks,
jon.