Low Sulfur Warning

[rashwor]

I filled up yesterday where I usually do. I sure wish I had a camera phone. Here is the text of the sign posted on the Diesel pump:

Low Sulfur Diesel Fuel

(500ppm Sulfur Maximum)



WARNING



Federal law prohibits use in model year 2007 and LATER highway vehicles and engines. It’s use may damage these vehicles and engines.​

This is contrary to what I was thinking. I thought that the new engines were supposed to be able to handle the Low Sulfur better than the older engines. I suspect that this is the governments’ way of saying: “Not our problem if your new engine craps on low sulfur”.

 

[HRDROKN]

I filled up yesterday where I usually do. I sure wish I had a camera phone. Here is the text of the sign posted on the Diesel pump:

Low Sulfur Diesel Fuel

(500ppm Sulfur Maximum)



WARNING



Federal law prohibits use in model year 2007 and LATER highway vehicles and engines. It’s use may damage these vehicles and engines.​

2007 and later vehicles are to be running ULSD (Ultra Low Sulfer Diesel) which is less than 15 ppm sulfer maximum.



.

 

[Greenleaf]

I just spoke with our teritorial salesman from Bluebird and they have bus orders to fill all they way up through March of 07. Becasue the bus is ORDERED in 06 it will not have the 07 emissions. LOL I guess they can get around having to build the more expensive bus untill April of 07.



I have yet to see any sign that states as the above mentioned "Warning" in Ohio. I don't think the 07 engines are even out there yet (??)

 

[MRosinski]

So it looks like were gonna have to run a lot of fuel additive or bio. Looks like its time to buy 55gal. drums of power service instead of the 1 gallon bottles I get now.



I wonder if off-road will no longer be availible in high sulfer form??

 

[Buffalo]

MRosinski,



I wouldn't be too concerned about the ULSD. For quite awhile now, all the fuel manufactured in CA has been ULSD. CA fuel is distributed throughout the West.



Last year, Bosch, in Las Vegas, was seeing problems with the ULSD being too dry & damage resulting from the lack of lubricity in that fuel. They, HIGHLY, recommended the use of additives to increase the lubricity.



At May Madness, this year, I talked to the same Bosch Rep. & he said that they are not seeing the same problems they did previous to last year. I asked him if it was still necessary to be using the lubricity additives & he said that it wasn't necessary, now.



I've been running the ULSD in both my '91 & '03 Cummins, without any problems. However, I have been running an additive for a bit more than the past year.



If you have a 3rd Gen. I would continue using an additive to keep the injectors clean of carbon build-up, which these engines seem to be susceptable too.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[BigPapa]

This is contrary to what I was thinking. I thought that the new engines were supposed to be able to handle the Low Sulfur better than the older engines.

What the warning is telling you is that the diesel you just pumped is LOW sulfer diesel (500ppm). That is what has been produced since 1994.



What is coming is ULTRA-LOW sulfer diesel (15ppm). The way I understand it is that the LOW sulfer diesel (500ppm) could cause problems in the newer engines.



Scott

 

[jltcasper3]

Why Would lsd cause problems in the new engines, since the sulfer is what provides the lubrication thus it should lube the pump, injectors better?



Also if they are going to be putting ulsd, which has less lubricating properties than lsd at the pumps in 07, what about all the older engines like the 2nd gens, even the 3rd gens, are we going to have to put a additive in so we don't have a fuel system failure?

 

[Buffalo]

The problem with LSD used in the '07 engines will be that these engines will have much more emissions equipment on them, including a particulate trap. The 500ppm of sulphur will overload the emissions equipment. The ULSD will not, with only 15ppm sulphur.



The lubricity in the fuel is destroyed in the process that removes the excess sulphur. Early on, the diesel fuel manufacturers were not replacing the lost lubricity to the level that the LSD had. It appears that problem has been corrected, now. At least in the CA made fuel.



The older trucks will probably be OK since lubricity is added, by the manufacturers, before it's sold to us.



If you want to be on the safe side, suppliment your fuel with an additive. Most probably, the additive will have other properties that will do things like keeping your injectors cleaner.



Since ULSD has been out for quite awhile, now, & there don't seem to be a lot of us having problems with it, my guess is that all will be OK.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[gitchesum]

Joe, I gotta correct a little misconseption of CARB diesel. It's not ULSD, but ALAD. Alternate Low Aromatic Diesel.



Yes, it does have a lower sulfur content, but it's well over the 15ppm maximum that is required for ULSD.





Like I've mentioned in another thread, ULSD must meet hte same ASTM standard for lubricity, the same standards that have been in place since Jan 05. All loading stations have a lubricity injector that injects the lubricity agent as the fuel is being loaded in the tanker truck.

 

[Dieselnut59]

Remember, ULSD has been used for several years in places like UK. It is thanks to its introduction here that we will soon see more diesel engine availability in this country, especially in cars.

 

[gitchesum]

Believe it or not, after June 1, we'll have lower sulfur content that most countries in the world.



the UK standards are 30ppm and I think Italy has a max sulfur content of 50ppm.



We'll be 15ppm



And yes, this will only open the door for more diesel powered vehicles. I like the idea of the Chrysler 300 diesel coming over.

 

[GFrance]

Joe, I gotta correct a little misconseption of CARB diesel. It's not ULSD, but ALAD. Alternate Low Aromatic Diesel.



Yes, it does have a lower sulfur content, but it's well over the 15ppm maximum that is required for ULSD.





Like I've mentioned in another thread, ULSD must meet hte same ASTM standard for lubricity, the same standards that have been in place since Jan 05. All loading stations have a lubricity injector that injects the lubricity agent as the fuel is being loaded in the tanker truck.

Yup gitchesum is right on track. Our loading facility has just put in additive tanks to add to the diesel as it's loaded into my truck. Should be switched over by summers end.

 

[gitchesum]

Yup gitchesum is right on track. Our loading facility has just put in additive tanks to add to the diesel as it's loaded into my truck. Should be switched over by summers end.

I sure wish I had gotten in the lubricity injector business a few months ago. Those things are like gold right now.

 

[rashwor]

Thanks for clearing that up. I had gotten confused on LSD and ULSD. :-laf

 

[nps]

Last year, Bosch, in Las Vegas, was seeing problems with the ULSD being too dry & damage resulting from the lack of lubricity in that fuel. They, HIGHLY, recommended the use of additives to increase the lubricity.

Man, I must have one bullet-proof VP44. It has survived the 120* Vegas summers and low lubricity all at the same time! It's a keeper.

 

[obert]

I filled up yesterday where I usually do. I sure wish I had a camera phone. Here is the text of the sign posted on the Diesel pump:

Low Sulfur Diesel Fuel

(500ppm Sulfur Maximum)



WARNING



Federal law prohibits use in model year 2007 and LATER highway vehicles and engines. It’s use may damage these vehicles and engines.​

Been seeing these around columbus for a few weeks. My fleet card works at Speedway, thats prettymuch the only stations Ive been to lately, though.



A question to getchesum and gfrance-- What about off hyway fuel? Its my understanding that in this part of the country the red dey is for tax purpouse only, #2 is #2 and thats it. Will red fuel remian unchanged? Im a field service thech for a skid steer dealer, and with the new fuel "cleaning out" old fuel systems, I see alot of fuel filters flying off my truck shelf. And how nececary are the additives for older engines aftermarket wise-- consumers by the masses will pump fuel and go, will they be buying alot of pumps and injectors? (more $$ for me! Oo. ) I'm trying to get a good head start on this change in case it becomes a big deal, to be more pro-active at preventing damage to my own equipment as well as my customers'.

 

[gitchesum]

For the past few years, most refineries, with the exception of California, have pumped normal #2 as off-road fuel with the red dye added.



For the most part, Off-road fuel will remain unchanged. In California and a couple of other western states, ULSD will be dyed red and sold as off-road fuel. Like I mentioned, the ULSD must meet the same ASTM lubrication specs so you shouldn't see a huge jump in maintenance costs due to failing pumps and such.





After 2010, ALL diesel sold will be required to be ULSD. However, I suspect in the next year or so, most refineries will stop blending two different diesel products and simply produce ULSD only.

 

[Grey Wolf]

Here's Chevron's FAQ page for S15 ULSD...



http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/fuels/diesel/ulsd.shtml#A4

 

[Champane Flight]

So much fun..

We are now in the middle of ULSD swap. Lubricity and conductivity (new ULSD has high static discharge tendencys) are added at load rack. It is going to be a giant pain in the rear for most terminals. The extra cost will be from 3-5 cents. Marketing is pushing for us all to be in compliance by fall. The added testing and manned reciepts will keep us hopping.

 

[GFrance]

A question to getchesum and gfrance-- What about off hyway fuel? Its my understanding that in this part of the country the red dey is for tax purpouse only, #2 is #2 and thats it. Will red fuel remian unchanged? QUOTE]



Right now at our terminal we have high sulpher D/O that comes down the pipe already dyed. We also have a loading rack that has low sulpher D/O clear & by putting in a different blend code you get dye injected as your loading. Eventually the high & low will be phased out & replaced entirley with ULSD clear & injection dyed for tax purposes.