Attention: TDR Forum Junkies Hello,
This is my first post here. I thought I would post because I am shocked at what the machine shop offered for crankshaft cleanup.
I have been trying to rebuild an '03 (with late '02 components) since the end of April. I tore the engine down believing there was a spun bearing to replace, but I found that the seller had apparently assembled this engine out of odds and ends just to make it "driveable".
Sure enough there was a spun bearing. The thrust also had been chewed up, leaving large babbitt swarfs in the pan. The oil remaining in the pan seemed to be the only "factory original" item in the whole assembly!
Two connecting rods were black as if they had been heat-treated, black from one end to the other. But the corresponding bearing areas had bearings with plenty babbitt left. These rods obviously came from another block, and it must have been hot enough to glow in the dark!
The crank had rust spots on it. The rumor is that it had been in a flood, but there were few rust spots. One rod journal shows a gouge that I suspect came from a rod coming loose. The gouge had a good bearing on it, and the block shows no internal evidence of anything getting frisky.
The rocker levers and shafts both showed galling. There was a gouge in a tappet that nearly matched the one on the crank, and this is a mystery! Amazingly, the push rods showed no damage or wear. I would think that damage would be uniform if all parts were present for the damage I observed.
So off it goes to the machine shop. Five weeks later, it shows up "completed". The crank was supposedly polished, but the rust spots remain. Rusty fingerprints were on most of the journals. At first I doubted the shop when they called and said it just needed polishing, and that it was still standard. How could that be? I didn't question them, but when I saw the "finished" crank I began to doubt they had done anything but look at it.
So I cleaned the debris and crusty rust from the block, installed new Cummins STD bearing shells, lubricated them, and put in the crank. This crank will not turn without a prybar. This is with only the upper shells in place! They are all seated correctly. I would think that there is no way for a crank to increase it's diameter, but it seems I have found one that did! The crank turns stiffly throughout the rotation, with no change in effort required, it is as if there is a brake partially applied.
I am a machinist. The way I would look at a job like this is to turn the journals to the first oversize bearing and polish.
These journals are not uniform, as I have turned the crank some leave a smooth lube coat, others are lacking in uniformity.
Rust spots still remain, right where they were when it left for the machine shop, mainly at the side and edges of the wear face.
Should this crank not have been turned uniformly to eliminate the gouge first, and then polished? I am guessing (I don't have a needle point for my indicator) that the gouge is at least .020" deep. I don't know if there is a different "standard" for automotive machine shops, but shouldn't a journal be as close to a mirror finish as possible? Any surface roughness on a journal would "machine" the soft babbitt on the first turn, giving extra oil clearance instantly!
At this point, I aim to indicate the crankshaft in place and see if it is even straight. Then it is getting a ride to a different machine shop.
I would appreciate some input here. The gentleman I am assembling this engine for deserves to get what he paid for. It is almost as if the machine shop waved a stick over the parts and "magically" declared them done.
The same shop was supposed to press in new wrist pin bushings and machine them. We had bought 2 replacement rods used, and sent them to the machine shop along with 6 new Cummins bushings. I picked them up, and when I got into the box there were two bushings still in unopened boxes, and the two used rods were still in the wrapping from the person that shipped them to us. I can't believe this. They bored the block in with 6 holes. Do they expect to reassemble this with only 4 pistons?
Speaking of pistons... we ordered .020 over Mahle pistons form a shop back east that were supposed to be ceramic coated and have a teflon coating aplied to the skirts. The pistons arrived with a ceramic coating, but no teflon. I called, and sent them back just to get what we paid for. I inspected the "corrected" pistons.
Somebody's grandmother must have shot the ceramic coat with thir glasses off. The coating is not uniform, and I suspect the effectiveness of an uneven coat. The coating visually varies in thickness and quality. The "teflon" looks as if it was applied with an acid brush. The coating is of variable thickness as well, and sme is slopped in small globs in toward the wrist pin flats. I can even see aluminum shining through the "coating" in some places. These are coatings that are supposed to be accurately applied, to withstand a HOT working environment. Are these conditions I have described seem "normal" to anyone on this forum? If so, tell me how far that engine got before it had to be pulled again.
My aim in this rebuild was to have a happy customer. But the machine shop is not on my team, it would seem, nor is the
piston coater, who expects that I should be satistied with a "protective" coating that has the surface finish equivalent to a pre-schooler's finger paint job.
I would really appreciate some feedback on this forum. There seems to be nothing but sound advice here, and that is what I will follow. I won't mention any names on this forum, unless it is decided that is is best to warn future members in a similar situation. I would have like to know about these suppliers before I made the decisions, it would have saved us time and money, but mainly frustration and disappointment.
I would greatly appreciate some feedback from other members.
Hopefully this hasn't been too long.
snapped bolt
This is my first post here. I thought I would post because I am shocked at what the machine shop offered for crankshaft cleanup.
I have been trying to rebuild an '03 (with late '02 components) since the end of April. I tore the engine down believing there was a spun bearing to replace, but I found that the seller had apparently assembled this engine out of odds and ends just to make it "driveable".
Sure enough there was a spun bearing. The thrust also had been chewed up, leaving large babbitt swarfs in the pan. The oil remaining in the pan seemed to be the only "factory original" item in the whole assembly!
Two connecting rods were black as if they had been heat-treated, black from one end to the other. But the corresponding bearing areas had bearings with plenty babbitt left. These rods obviously came from another block, and it must have been hot enough to glow in the dark!
The crank had rust spots on it. The rumor is that it had been in a flood, but there were few rust spots. One rod journal shows a gouge that I suspect came from a rod coming loose. The gouge had a good bearing on it, and the block shows no internal evidence of anything getting frisky.
The rocker levers and shafts both showed galling. There was a gouge in a tappet that nearly matched the one on the crank, and this is a mystery! Amazingly, the push rods showed no damage or wear. I would think that damage would be uniform if all parts were present for the damage I observed.
So off it goes to the machine shop. Five weeks later, it shows up "completed". The crank was supposedly polished, but the rust spots remain. Rusty fingerprints were on most of the journals. At first I doubted the shop when they called and said it just needed polishing, and that it was still standard. How could that be? I didn't question them, but when I saw the "finished" crank I began to doubt they had done anything but look at it.
So I cleaned the debris and crusty rust from the block, installed new Cummins STD bearing shells, lubricated them, and put in the crank. This crank will not turn without a prybar. This is with only the upper shells in place! They are all seated correctly. I would think that there is no way for a crank to increase it's diameter, but it seems I have found one that did! The crank turns stiffly throughout the rotation, with no change in effort required, it is as if there is a brake partially applied.
I am a machinist. The way I would look at a job like this is to turn the journals to the first oversize bearing and polish.
These journals are not uniform, as I have turned the crank some leave a smooth lube coat, others are lacking in uniformity.
Rust spots still remain, right where they were when it left for the machine shop, mainly at the side and edges of the wear face.
Should this crank not have been turned uniformly to eliminate the gouge first, and then polished? I am guessing (I don't have a needle point for my indicator) that the gouge is at least .020" deep. I don't know if there is a different "standard" for automotive machine shops, but shouldn't a journal be as close to a mirror finish as possible? Any surface roughness on a journal would "machine" the soft babbitt on the first turn, giving extra oil clearance instantly!
At this point, I aim to indicate the crankshaft in place and see if it is even straight. Then it is getting a ride to a different machine shop.
I would appreciate some input here. The gentleman I am assembling this engine for deserves to get what he paid for. It is almost as if the machine shop waved a stick over the parts and "magically" declared them done.
The same shop was supposed to press in new wrist pin bushings and machine them. We had bought 2 replacement rods used, and sent them to the machine shop along with 6 new Cummins bushings. I picked them up, and when I got into the box there were two bushings still in unopened boxes, and the two used rods were still in the wrapping from the person that shipped them to us. I can't believe this. They bored the block in with 6 holes. Do they expect to reassemble this with only 4 pistons?
Speaking of pistons... we ordered .020 over Mahle pistons form a shop back east that were supposed to be ceramic coated and have a teflon coating aplied to the skirts. The pistons arrived with a ceramic coating, but no teflon. I called, and sent them back just to get what we paid for. I inspected the "corrected" pistons.
Somebody's grandmother must have shot the ceramic coat with thir glasses off. The coating is not uniform, and I suspect the effectiveness of an uneven coat. The coating visually varies in thickness and quality. The "teflon" looks as if it was applied with an acid brush. The coating is of variable thickness as well, and sme is slopped in small globs in toward the wrist pin flats. I can even see aluminum shining through the "coating" in some places. These are coatings that are supposed to be accurately applied, to withstand a HOT working environment. Are these conditions I have described seem "normal" to anyone on this forum? If so, tell me how far that engine got before it had to be pulled again.
My aim in this rebuild was to have a happy customer. But the machine shop is not on my team, it would seem, nor is the
piston coater, who expects that I should be satistied with a "protective" coating that has the surface finish equivalent to a pre-schooler's finger paint job.
I would really appreciate some feedback on this forum. There seems to be nothing but sound advice here, and that is what I will follow. I won't mention any names on this forum, unless it is decided that is is best to warn future members in a similar situation. I would have like to know about these suppliers before I made the decisions, it would have saved us time and money, but mainly frustration and disappointment.
I would greatly appreciate some feedback from other members.
Hopefully this hasn't been too long.
snapped bolt
