Mag-Hytec Lube Level Questions???

[Buffalo]

Hi,



I have a Mag-Hytec, AA 14-11. 5, rear differential cover on my '03, 3500 SWR, 4X4. I've been wondering about the added amount of gear lube it requires. So, I crawled under the truck and did some measuring. The level suggested with the Mag-Hytec is quite a bit higher than the level indicated for the stock rear-end cover.



There are two level marks on the dipstick that comes with the MH. The bottom mark is 7/8" higher than the bottom of the fill hole on the stock cover. I believe the stock DC recommended level should be 1/4" below the fill hole (+or- 1/4"). The top mark is 1-1/4" above the recommended fill level. The stock lube capacity is 7. 65 pints or a little under 4 qts. The MH recommends 6-8 qts.



The stock fill is level with the bottom of the axle tubes, outside diameter. It looks like none of the lube flows into the inside of the axle tubes, unless it is pumped in, somehow. I wonder how the outside wheel bearings get lubed?



With the MH recommended levels, the bottom level marking on the dipstick places the lube inside the bottom of the axle tubes. The top marking puts the level at the bottom of the axles, themselves. Seems like the bearings would be in a bath of gear oil all the time. It sounds better, to me. But, then I am not a mechanic and know little or nothing about rear axle lube requirements.



American Axle & Dodge must have a reason for wanting the lube level so low. I called MH, and they thought it may be because, if the bearings and seals aren't soaking in gear oil all the time, there is less likelyhood of them ever springing a leak during the warranty period. But, there's, also, less oil lubricating the bearings & gears.



I would appreciate any thoughts and suggestions from you guys with a lot of experience with axles and lubes.



When I bought the MH, I also bought 8 qts. of LE-607 gear oil. It's supposed to be an excellent gear oil but, it is not synthetic & I'm a little hesitant to use it, while the truck is still under warranty. Any thoughts about that would be appreciated, also.



Thanks for your help.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[Posm]

I also called MH and asked the same question. I think it is their responibility as an aftermarket manufacturer to justify their claim/design. I also was not very satisfied with their response. I just fill mine to the lower fill line. I measured this to be near the bottom of the axle tube. My concern with over fill was froth and lack of lubrication. I changed my rear end lube in about 20 minutes the other day and loved that part. I do not like the fact that the cover manufacturer can not justify their design.



Bryan

 

[hasselbach]

Think about what happens when the ring gear is spinning, and the windage displaces all the gear oil. I'm sure that the oil flows into the tubes once underway. Not to mention the oil that is flung by the axles themselves.

 

[nickleinonen]

Think about what happens when the ring gear is spinning, and the windage displaces all the gear oil. I'm sure that the oil flows into the tubes once underway. Not to mention the oil that is flung by the axles themselves.

and take a corner or two and you will have centrifical force pushing the oil down the axle shafts [once the oil is hot, it flows real well]

 

[Buffalo]

Thanks for your replys.



I was told that the axle tubes are 5/16" thick on the AA axles. So, if you have the gear oil level at the factory recommended level of 1/4" below the bottom of the fill hole, the oil is going to have to climb over 1/2" just to get into the bottom of the axle tubes and then flow down to the bearings.



I hadn't thought about the "wave action" created by the ring gear forcing the gear oil down the tubes to the bearings.



By over-filling the rearend, as recommended by MH, do you guys think that foaming of the oil could be a problem.



BTW, the MH cover has an "Oil Level Reference Plug" on the back surface of the cover, where the name and model number are. This plug is placed about 1/8" above where the factory recommended gear oil level should be. So, factory recommended levels can be easily achieved.



In answer to my questions, Mag-Hytec said that they had sold over 30,000 of these units without one gear oil related problem.



Thanks, again, for your suggestions and opinions.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[Bertram65]

Maybe 30,000 total differential covers since they have been in bussiness, I highly doubt 30,000 units for the 3rd gen Dodge trucks. They probably had those dipsticks made for a specific application and they were accurate for that application with that applications cover. Thier explaination makes no sense other than they do not have the correct dipstick for this application and do not want to spend the money to make the correct one, remember the O ring fiasco when they first started selling covers for the 3rd gen Dodge trucks? if they had actually put one on a truck they would have realized the O ring was not right so I highly doubt they actually verified the factory fill level against the dipstick.

 

[Buffalo]

Bertram65,



My understanding was that they had produced over 30,000 units, altogether, for all trucks.



They told me that they had raised the oil level guide, on purpose, as they thought the stock levels were too low. They, also, said that none of their units with elevated oil levels had caused any problems, in the past.



Regarding the "O-ring", I believe the story was that the original AA 14-11. 5's were made for the GM version of the American Axle. I don't believe it had a threaded hole in the bottom of the diff. I believe that is where the drain plug on the stock cover is. The unit dedicated to the GM axle fits the axles dedicated to DC but, you have to fill the bottom hole with silicone, let it harden and then the o-ring will work. That technique worked on mine.



I'm not trying to defend M-H, just trying to find out if I could be doing any damage to the rear-end.



I'm thinking, maybe it would be a good compromise to just put 6 qts. of fluid in, bringing it to the lower line on the dipstick rather than 7. 5 to 8 qts. to fill it to the top line on the dipstick. The 6 qts. would still be slightly over 2 qts. above the stock level.



Thanks.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[Bertram65]

I would stick with stock level, I do not see how you can go wrong. Interesting what they say about the higher level, I have never heard that before about thier covers, you would think they would mention it on thier web site if it is better for the differential. I checked thier website and in the pictures the dipstick apears to match the plug that is at the same level as stock, check it out, http://www.mag-hytec.com/differential covers.htm

 

[MMeier]

Hey Joe, I put just under 8 qts in mine when I installed before May Madness. I used the LE 607, remember we talked about it, now 15,000 miles later still no problems with leaks or otherwise. You know what I do with this thing, just got in the other night with an 11' tall stack weighing in right at 22k#. IF I were you just get the 7 qts in, drive about 15 miles, let it sit for 1/2 an hour then check the dipstick, mine sits 3/4 of the way up in the marked area, on level ground of course!

 

[Bertram65]

Hey Joe, I put just under 8 qts in mine when I installed before May Madness. I used the LE 607, remember we talked about it, now 15,000 miles later still no problems with leaks or otherwise. You know what I do with this thing, just got in the other night with an 11' tall stack weighing in right at 22k#. IF I were you just get the 7 qts in, drive about 15 miles, let it sit for 1/2 an hour then check the dipstick, mine sits 3/4 of the way up in the marked area, on level ground of course!

Good luck, that LE 607 from what I could find is not GL-5 rated and is straight weight 90. What would be the reason to use an oil that is so far from the factory spec?

 

[Yo Hoot]

I used Redline in mine. I used to own a Duramax with the Mag cover. When I traded it in I put the stock cover back on the Dmax and put that one on my Dodge. I actually recut the oring grove with a router bit so it would fully contact the faying surface.

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[GAmes]

The MH cover oil level on my Dana 80 is apparantly over stock also. I recently had my pinion seal replaced and the mech said he normally loses about a 1/2 qt doing the job. Mine drained out 3 of the 7 and it may have been a little low to start with. With close to 3/4 of a million miles on it overfill doesn't seem to be an issue.

 

[CDonaldson]

Run your truck and get the rear end up to temp, stop and check the dipstick, NO sign of foam. I am running the Amsoil Severe Gear 75w140with NO problems whatsoever. I send in an oil analysis whenI change my fluids - all of them get analyzed - no problems. I dump in 8 qts, level is about 3/4's of the way up the crosshatched section of the MagHytek dip stick. No seals leaking, doing just fine. I did have the pinion seal go at about 12K, typical issue with these trucks during the early timeframe/mileage, it was covered by my warranty, of course, I was also running factory oil at the time and the oil analysis on the factory oil was a terrible report.



Foaming CAN be an issue with dyno oils, also when you add additives, but synthetics, no so much, in fact, I have never heard of any issues of foaming with straight synthetics.





CD