Magnetic Drain Plug - why risk it?

[BT]

Been reading about the superplugs. Buddy of mine said he had talked to Geno's; they had heard of 3 instances of drain plugs falling out and catastrophic engine failure. I immediately pulled mine after changing my oil only 300 miles ago. The plug did not feel tight. I think part of the problem with the super plug is that the hex head is much smaller diameter than the original plug, and the smaller diameter of the bearing area doesn't provide as much resistance to the plug/gasket rotating loose compared to the stock plug, which has a shoulder that encompasses the full diamter of the gasket. I could definitely see the marks left by the points of the hexes on the bolt head on the metal gasket well inside of the outer diameter of the washer.



Anyway, my question is... is it really worth having a magnetic plug in an engine anyway? As I understand the routing of oil through the engine, it's picked up from the pan/reservoir by the oil pickup, goes through the pump and through the filter before being distributed to the oil galleys and ultimatley to the engine bearing surfaces. In order for metal flakes to get to the bearing surfaces and cause damage, the metal particles would have to be smaller than the oil filter pores. Any metal generated by the engine during operation occurs during the oil's path through the engine, as a result of normal wear. And I think wear products from the bearings - rod, crankshaft, etc - are non-magnetic or weakly magnetic materials, and wouldn't be picked up by the magnet anyway. When the oil is changed, most (hopefully) of the metal particles will be washed out of the pan.



Does anybody know if the filter will take out the metal particles of the size range that would be picked up by the drain plug? Finer particles that are not filterable would probably stay in suspension unless they came in close contact with the drain plug. Does anbody know of solid evidence/studies regarding mag plug effectiveness at preventing premature engine failure/wear?



IMHO having an aftermarket plug is way too risky for the potential benefit. Mag plugs definitely make sense for the transfer case, tranmission, and differentials since there is no filtration to take the metal particles out of the oil and the plugs can be torqued harder agains the more solid metal casings.

 

[wcjp]

I've had a magnetic plug on other vehciles. They always seemed to find a little metal.

 

[Joe G.]

BT is right. Even if a magnetic plug finds some metal that doesn't mean that it will get thru the filter into the works. What about the metal that doesn't manage to wander by the magnet? I use the stock plug and see absolutely no benefit from any aftermarket plug I've seen. So what if I get a little oil on my fingers when I change oil? The way the weather has been lately I can use all the rust proofing I can get anyway.

 

[illflem]

My feeling is if you collect metal on your engine oil magnet something is very wrong and it's already too late. Magnets are great for trannys, differentials, etc though.



Stock plug works just fine for me. If you don't like oil on your hands wear disposable rubber gloves.

 

[Brandon]

hey bill do the math...



why do psd's have a magnetic drain plug stock:-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf







oooooh I am killin myself, could not resist, "My feeling is if you collect metal on your engine oil magnet something is very wrong and it's already too late. "(illflem)



you are right!!!!!!!!! something is very wrong

 

[Kirwin]

Loss of oil at speed pulling a trailer!

I was one of the ones that bought a super plug from Geno's. 3700 miles later I look down and oil pressure reads 0 psig and the oil can is lit up!:--) Talk about heart failure. Boost was about 8 psig speed was 62 mph pulling my travel trailer just outside of Bozerman MT.

I shut the truck off the tach immediately dropped to 0, couldn't figure out why the motor was still turning, then pushed in the clutch (you laugh, but the time was passing by very quickly). Coasted up the road until this nice gravel parking lot appeared and decided this would have to be the place. Went to pull in and discovered why every CTD has power steering! Stopped, jumped out of the truck to find that there was a nice big hole in the oil pan where the oil plug was supposed to be. At about this point my heart started beating again. Oil was all over everything under the truck. I was lucky. Had a change of oil and a new filter along with me for the trip. Truth be told I was intending to stop early that day and change the oil as this was the first oil change in my truck that had ever exceeded 3000 miles by this much. SO when faced with the alternatives its not looking to good for me today. Well what did I have to lose. I found the plug attached to the back of the pan by that big magnet, Cleaned off the pan and plug area put in the new oil and replaced the filter and decided that it either wouldn't crank if the engine was set up or else it would belch out a whole lot of smoke! Crossed my fingers, hit the starter and she started right up. Oil pressure came up slowly as it always does after an oil change but came up to normal pressure. No smoke, no unusual noises, nothing unusual from the crankcase breather tube. Everything sounds good. Let her run for 10 minutes. Shut her down and check the oil. Right up there at the full mark. Ah God is just toying with me and as soon as I put a load on it, its gonna blow up. So what are my choices? I decide that I will try to get closer to a Cummins dealer or at least a large Dodge dealer. Billings MT must have a good size Dodge dealer. So I put her in gear and pull in to the Flying J down the street and fuel up. In the process **** off a ford diesel driver by making him wait while I'm at the pump. He calls me some not very nice things before driving off without getting fuel. Clearly he doesn't know what kind of day I'm having! Decide to try to head for Billings and will watch things very closely hoping for the best. They say this engine is over engineered so we will see. Well I had a nice tail wind for the first 150 miles. Stopped 3 times and each time checked the oil and checked that plug tight! Them the wind swung around and I was driving into a 40-50 mph head wind. Passed Billings. EGTs were running 1150 boost was running about 26-28 psig. The wind was blowing so hard that there were times when the Cummins was straining just to maintain 60 mph. There were long stretches of wide open throttle trying to maintain decent headway. I finally reach the ND border and fill up again at the Flying J. The wind was blowing so hard I couldn't get the drivers side door open. Told the wife that if the truck can run wide open for nearly 4 straight hours, I don't think we could have damaged anything too bad. A couple of days later, stopped in Columbus IN and discussed my recent near tragedy with Mark Chapple at TST products. He said that most likely I hadn't damaged anything. He said the the Turbo Charger was usually the first casualty on a loss of oil pressure. So I continued on home. The next week I was back in Columbus for the TDR nationals and replayed this story for the Holset service engineer. They went out to my truck with me and gave my turbo a once over and said that here wasn't anything wrong with that turbo!

The long and short of it is there appears to be insufficient clamping force between the seal washer and the oil pan to keep the plug tight. I'm sure that the diesel vibration doens't help either. I tried a replacement Cummins plug gasket instead of the cork like gasket that the plug came with but it just didn't feel right and I wasn't willing to take the chance!

Geno's took care of me. I had an oil analysis done on the oil that I put in on the side of the road when I got back home. All wear metals were normal. I have so far not been able to tell that anything was damaged. The truck continues to perform just as it always has. Oil consumption is the same. I usually see about 1/2 a quart in 3000 miles pulling the trailer. For the recored I use Preimuim Blue and Stratapore filters. Sometmes it is hard to tell what an aftermarket product will do prior to using it but it is important to look at what could go wrong and how would that affect the entire product. Ken Irwin

 

[tractorface]

RARE EARTH MAGNETS

If you really want the benefits of a magnet but don't want the risk associated with the superplug just attach a rare earth magnet to the bottom of the oil pan. Just pull it off before you drain the pan and the particles will wash on through with the oil. These are some serious magnets (hard to pull of). Even thought about using one where the KDP falls out but feared it might actually help "pull" it out. anyway just my 2 cents.

 

[emarsh]

I do exactly what tractorforce says. If someone is interested I will provive the McMaster-Carr part number. I also use the same magnet to hold my fender covers onto the truck (or car) while working on it.

 

[rrausch]

I bought a Superplug from Geno's a few months ago and put it in about 1500 miles ago. When this issue first came up a few weeks ago, I called one of the owners of Superplug, whose name I have forgotten. He told me the Superplug for the Cummins was coming loose because when Superplug engineered the threads, they spec'd them to be too tight. (Yes the fit between male and female threads is a funny thing... ) He said the loosening problem had nothing to do with the washer or bolt shoulder. I believe they are in the process of re-engineering the plug for the Cummins. He said no other Superplug for any other application had ever loosened, and was extremely upset this had happened.



So I climbed underneath my truck, after 1200 miles on the plug, and checked the torque. I set my torque wrench for 44 ft. lbs, and managed to tighten it about a half turn. I can live with re-torquing it every 6-700 miles until the next oil change.

 

[illflem]

Well I was a sucker and bought one of these-- http://www.thebeartrap.com/domestic.htm It arrived today, talk about a magnet, this thing will easily lift twenty pounds. Time will tell how it works but I can't see how it could hurt anything.

 

[Joe G.]

It might stop the crank.

 

[RKohn]

I've got 3 of them big magnets on my fuel line, it pulls the fuel right through and I don't even need a lift pump.

 

[KL]

I also put on a Super Plug at my previous oil change. When I changed my oil today, I put a wrench on the Super Plug and it loosened without me applying any pressure. After hearing about some other Super Plugs loosening and/or coming off I didn't want to risk it coming off, so I put the factory plug back on this time. KL

 

[jimk]

drain plug

A while back I was tightening up the drain plug in the oil pan an the torque did not feel right like the threads were pulling in the pan. Turns out to be a bad plug as the darn thing was coming apart. I was at work so I chucked up the plug in the lathe and machined the plug and welded a nut to the plug with some 7018 and re machined the plug. The nut is a lot larger than the original one. I also had a large magnet that was the base to a CB so I stuck it to the bottom of the automatic pan and it has held on for over a year. I realize that the magnet will only work on ferris metals but it did not cost any thing. If you are wonting to see what is going on in the motor then cut open the oil filter after you have changed it out.

 

[Dave MacArthur]

Here's a good place to get some Rare Earth Neodymium magnets. I have ordered from them before and they are a lot of fun. You won't beleive how strong they are until you see them in person. Amazing. You'll learn pretty quickly to be careful when putting them near anything metal because they will SLAM into it. The flat ones are nearly impossible to pull off of anything, you have to slide them to an edge and even then, good luck! They come with pieces of paper between them and that is how you pull them apart. If you get two of the magnets directly together it takes a lot of effort to get them apart. There is no way to just pull them apart, you have to slide them until there is very little surface area left touching each other and them pull them apart.



http://www.wondermagnet.com/dev/main.shtml



Dave

 

[RKohn]

I had mine in for 15k and it did loosen up. Those things won't ever fall out though, cause that magnet is strong. I had a hard time getting it out with oily hands. No metal on it, so I put the stock one back in and sent the ole Super Plug back yesterday. It was well made though. Gonna get me a nice American Flag receiver cover instead. God Bless America.

 

[Kirwin]

They will come out!!!!

Read my post they will indeed come out!!!!!

 

[PHaller]

Instead of buying?? magnets go to your sign shop and ask for scrap magnetic vinyl sign material. Cut to fit oil filter.

When you change oil filters you switch the magnet over to the new filter and it comes into contact with the entire oil filter not just a small patch.

-Paul R. Haller-

 

[John Berger]

Originally posted by RKohn

I've got 3 of them big magnets on my fuel line, it pulls the fuel right through and I don't even need a lift pump.

Damn. I got magnets. I'm heading out to the truck right now. I don't need no stinking pusher pump. :-laf :-laf :-laf

 

[vssman]

Exactly which drain plug from Geno's have all of you been finding loose? Is it the "Super Plug" that has a very large hex head and magnet or the "Plug it right" plug that has a 9/16 hex head and magnet? I understand that the second one is designed/manufactured by a TDR member, not by Super plug and is not the one loosening up. Am I right? I need to know as the wife bought me one for Christmas and I was going to install it at the next oil change.