Make 2500 Higher GCVW than 3500

[Wiredawg]

Fellow Rammers, This should stir the pot a little:



I've been stewing over whether to keep my truck and upgrade, trade it and get a dually or get a med duty truck. I've struggled with this every since I figured out the RV dealer didn't tell the whole truth about how much weight my truck can pull when I bought my 5th wheel.



Well here it is: I don’t want a dually or med duty so I plan on upgrading the two differences between 2500s and 3500s: brakes and tire capacity on my 2500. My Airlift airbags take up the diff in springs. After adding G rated 19. 5s and Extreme Brake upgrades, I should actually have more capacity than a 3500, realistically speaking.



Dragg'n my 5th wheel, I have a GCVW of 23,400 lbs, my front axle weighs 4,500 lbs and the rear axle weighs 6,300 lbs. The new skins are rated around 4,500 a piece and the brakes (lots better than stock). The only weak link is the rear axle, which the Dana 80 Hybrid is rated at least at 7,500 lbs.



So, let the discussion begin





Thanks Ron

 

[GAmes]

IMO, GCWR is a fictional number pulled from somewhere in outer space, used only be dealers to cheat you out of warranty coverage. If you are not exceeding GVWR, axle ratings or tire ratings and have the power you need to go and the brakes you need to stop I don't see a problem

 

[Ron Bissett]

Stuck with the sticker

Its a sad fact no matter what you add to your truck the sticker is the limit that the cops and lawyers go by . The 2500 8800 GVW and 3500 10500 In 99 and slightly higher now . We know that it under rated and the trucks will pull alot more than what DC states . I think that the formlar is a mix of sound thinking and vodoo . Ron in LOUISVILLE KY :--) :-{}

 

[azcummins]

Hmmm... i've been looking to downgrade to a 2500...

 

[geusterman]

How would you ever switch to 19. 5's? George

 

[Wiredawg]

geusterman:



Rickson's has G rated (around 4,000 to 4,500 lb rated) 225/19. 5s and steel or aluminum wheels.



Wiredawg

 

[RustyJC]

Doesn't matter if you drop in an ISC, a RoadRanger and the biggest Dana you can squeeze under the truck. Manufacturer's Ratings (GVWR, GCVWR and GAWR) that are tied to your truck's specific VIN number are all that will matter in court. End of story.



Rusty

 

[FATCAT]

Time to upgrade !

Wiredawg,

like the others said, one incident and your backside will be hauled into court faster than you can say "what happened".



Time to upgrade, if the trailer is a heavy one, make a deal on

this truck . Just need to put a flat bed on it and a 5th hitch and your worries are over.

 

[Diesel Gunner]

I am not ready to believe that the frame on these trucks can handle the stresses. Don't get me wrong, I love my truck, but have youi really looked at the frames on these things? My '84 Ford half ton looked to be heavier than these.



And ditto on the cops and court. I doubt that any lawyer would give you a pass because of mods. I do think that it will make for an interesting rig and I like to see people thinking and improving what they've got, though. Who knows, some day someone is gonna make money off of this kind of thinking.

 

[MJawsman]

Well you could always turn the vehicle into a custom truck kind of like a street rod or home built truck. Make up your own VIN and specs for it. Check with your local DOT. I'm sure there are rules and regs in every state for building your own truck and then making it DOT legal. Just a thought... .

 

[RustyJC]

Re: Time to upgrade !

Originally posted by FATCAT



Time to upgrade, if the trailer is a heavy one, make a deal on

this truck . Just need to put a flat bed on it and a 5th hitch and your worries are over.

Maybe like THIS truck? (Dang, I wish my wife would hit the Texas Lottery!)



Rusty

 

[Wiredawg]

Thanks for the candor

Well guys...



All that you've said is true. The pure fact of the matter is there isn't anything smaller than an F-450 that will "legally" pull my trailer. I've posted about this before and have read other posts about this as well. .



Being in the military for 26 years has taught me a lot about being responsible. Taking care, knowing your capabilities and your limitations are key to being safe. I see 18-wheelers everyday that a "legal" in everyway except in the manner in which they are operated. I see "legal" pickup trucks/5th wheels running down the road 80 miles an hour. I see all of them driving as if they were in some kind of roadrace, swerving in and out of traffic.



As for the lawyers: If you were in an accident and they were out to get you, they could, would and will.



Taking everything into account, I'm going to keep my 2500, keep 'er and the trailer in top shape and sail happily (and carefully) down the road.



Thanks again for all your input...



Happy Trails,



Wiredawg

 

[Mundgyver]

You might find this interesting. http://www.dana.com/offhighway/product/ohaxle/PDF/SpecltyAxleCondSpecs02.pdf Page 4 shows the rating for a Dana 80 at 11,500 lbs. Just thought you all would be interested.

 

[Bill Lins]

Dawg- please tell us more about the "Extreme Brake upgrade". What is it & what does it cost?

 

[Wiredawg]

Bill:



There is an article in the issue before last of the TDR about Earthroamer getting the upgrade. I'm going to order is pkg "C" for $1,182 (price varies by year and type of truck). For that, I get



One pair of either Gas Slotted or Cross Drilled Rotors, Carbon Kevlar Pads and 1 1/2 liters of Hi-Temp Motul 600c Brake Fluid, Super Duty Blue Printed Calipers, Carbon Kevlar Rear Shoes & FREE rear over-sized Wheel Cylinders.



EGR Severe Service Brakes

1041 Cinnamon Lane

Corona, Ca 92882-8784

909-898-1168~800-468-2279~Fax:909-549-1755

www.EarthRoamer.com/egr/



Earthroamer reported super results.



Wiredawg

 

[Wiredawg]

Mundgyver:



You are right about Dana 80s being rated higher, but I believe our Dana 80 "Hybrids" don't have the Dana 80 axle tubes... they have the Dana 70 axle tubes in 'em.



I could be wrong though, 'cause I'm pulling from memory and that' like drawing water from a shallow well.



In fact, a while back, I priced out a 4X4 F-450 which has a real Dana 80 in it. It's rated to tow up to 17K lb trailer and has 4. 33 rear end. Just couldn't bring myself to buy a Ford. Price wasn't bad either at $38K for a new Crewcab cab chasis.



Thanks for the info



Wiredawg

 

[Mundgyver]

So would this mean that we do not have a true Dana 80? How can we tell the difference? The sticker in the truck makes no distinction that I am aware of. Inquiring minds are curious.

 

[MJawsman]

The sticker in my truck shows 'hybrid" as does the Dodge literature for my year truck. The problem I've heard of with a true Dana 80 is the bolt circle for the wheels is larger than the 8 on 6 1/2" pattern that we have. In fact if you look at the lug circle listed on that 11,500 lb Dana 80, it's listed at 6 on 8 3/4! That's a big difference. Ford uses 8 on 170MM (about 6. 7"). I've seen Dana 80's under some of the Isuzu trucks. I think they use a 17. 5" or 19. 5" wheel too. Ok I'm rambling now... .....