Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) making 600hp

[oldbluef250]

What all do I need to do to a 2nd gen 12v to make 600 hp, and so the engine will stand up to it? Do I need to replace anything internally such as pistons, rings, or connecting rods? I was hoping I wouldn't need to, but I don't know. What do I need to do to the head? Could you please list everything. I want to put a 12v in an old 71-79' f250, but use it as a daily driver. Right now I have a stock 96' f250 powerstroke that I'll probably sell to make this happen. Thanks

 

[Missouri Mule]

Pistons ,rings ,rods should be OK you will need high perfomance cam.

Head: O-ring and studs, probably new head gasket.

Of course plate,injectors, exhaust, less restrictive air intake (bhaf or afe air intake sytems), turbo(s).

 

[RHestand]

Ditto to Missouri Mule, and also you will need at least $10,000 dollars burning a whole in your pocket.

Oh, and by the way. Let me be the first to welcome you to the TDR.

Ray

 

[Ted Jannetty]

Don't forget the Twin Turbos, Custom injection pump, Large injectors, Cylinder head Porting, Bigger intercooler, 5 inch exhaust, Fass fuel pump, a Transmission and drive line that can handle 1400 lb torque, Guages, A radiator and fan that can cool 600 hp.



$10,000 might be a little Light



If I can be of any assistance give me a call or email me.

 

[TJarecke]

Wow you guys are harsh.
You guys really think that a custom cam, studs, custom injection pump, ported cylinder head, bigger intercooler, and FASS are needed for 600hp?

Let alone $10k? Maybe 10k in the trans clutch and motor.

Welcome to the site OldBluef250!

 

[Ted Jannetty]

Wow you guys are harsh.

You guys really think that a custom cam, studs, custom injection pump, ported cylinder head, bigger intercooler, and FASS are needed for 600hp?



Let alone $10k? Maybe 10k in the trans clutch and motor.



Welcome to the site OldBluef250!

That is the reality of 600 REAL HP.



Lower HP would need alot less Support.



Ted.

 

[TJarecke]

Everyone has their opinions. Here are some of mine.



Spend your money wisely. If you have the ability do the work yourself and you will save a bunch of money.



Exhaust of course.

Intake of course (BHAF is going to be fairly restrictive with the air you are going to want to flow. You can use it though. I have done 545hp on a BHAF)

Do your own custom pump. There is a bunch of reading out there on how too build your own injection pump. You can do afc mods, buy or cut a fuel plate, gov springs, dv's, dv holders, mack rack plug (depending on your pump you may not need it). I bought a pump from a shop and would never do it again.

Turbo or turbos. Sounds to me like you are going to want turbos for your application. There have been plenty of kits for sale out there or build your own.

Injectors. There are a lot of options here. And again used is your friend. You can get some good deals if you watch. A 5x. 014 (same size as DDP4s) set should support what you are wanting.

Head work. O-ring, cummins white stripe 60lb springs, torque down your stock bolts (I don't believe you need studs, you can use them if you feel better about it)

The stock lift pump will support quite a bit of power. You can do a lot of other things other than a full fuel system. For a daily driver I like having the stock pump for its reliabilty.

I agree keep the radiator and such in mind. The supporting cast around the motor will help keep you going.



Cam, intercooler, ported head are all extras IMHO. Needed, I doubt it.



The transmission is where you can spend a lot of money. If you are wanting an auto be ready to shell out the $$$$. A manual will probably be the more economical route, but the clutch can get expensive too.



I believe it comes down to what you are going to use the truck for. If you are just daily driving it is going to be different than someone who is always hooked to a trailer, or someone who is drag racing or sled pulling, etc.



My opinions. I am not one for writing checks for people to work on my truck so I may have a different views than others. Good luck with the build.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Don't forget to do the Boost and EGT gauges first.

 

[Ted Jannetty]

Everyone has their opinions. Here are some of mine.



Spend your money wisely. If you have the ability do the work yourself and you will save a bunch of money.



Exhaust of course.

Intake of course (BHAF is going to be fairly restrictive with the air you are going to want to flow. You can use it though. I have done 545hp on a BHAF)

Do your own custom pump. There is a bunch of reading out there on how too build your own injection pump. You can do afc mods, buy or cut a fuel plate, gov springs, dv's, dv holders, mack rack plug (depending on your pump you may not need it). I bought a pump from a shop and would never do it again.

Turbo or turbos. Sounds to me like you are going to want turbos for your application. There have been plenty of kits for sale out there or build your own.

Injectors. There are a lot of options here. And again used is your friend. You can get some good deals if you watch. A 5x. 014 (same size as DDP4s) set should support what you are wanting.

Head work. O-ring, cummins white stripe 60lb springs, torque down your stock bolts (I don't believe you need studs, you can use them if you feel better about it)

The stock lift pump will support quite a bit of power. You can do a lot of other things other than a full fuel system. For a daily driver I like having the stock pump for its reliabilty.

I agree keep the radiator and such in mind. The supporting cast around the motor will help keep you going.



Cam, intercooler, ported head are all extras IMHO. Needed, I doubt it.



The transmission is where you can spend a lot of money. If you are wanting an auto be ready to shell out the $$$$. A manual will probably be the more economical route, but the clutch can get expensive too.



I believe it comes down to what you are going to use the truck for. If you are just daily driving it is going to be different than someone who is always hooked to a trailer, or someone who is drag racing or sled pulling, etc.



My opinions. I am not one for writing checks for people to work on my truck so I may have a different views than others. Good luck with the build.

Your right about saving by doing your own work but I disagree that you can make a REAL 600 hp with out the supporting mods I suggested.



If by chance you do make 600 on a dyno it won't make it on the street and it won't last more than a quarter mile pass.



I think we have to be realistic with our goals for power, I beleive that very Few People Really Know what 600 hp feels like, if we gave him 400 and told him he had 600 he would believe us, But We don't Roll like that.



A Real 400 HP Cummins is a Sick Ride, Tires don't last more than 10,000 miles Driving normal LOL



400 Hp is Very Doable for Little money but you still need the Transmission mods, if you have a good trans, install a converter and Valve body and you can double the torque capacity when you double the HP and you have a good combination.



I think we were just trying to give him a wake up call.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I made 600+ HP on the dyno back in March 2001. Basically, I used a single large turbo (HX55, but much better turbos are available now), self-ported head, camshaft I developed with Diesel Dynamics, 215 HP P7100 pump with mods to the torque plate and afc, DD injectors (honed 370s), advanced timing (18 degrees). I used slightly larger injection lines (080” ID). The short block was stock and held up just fine. Lift pump and feed lines were stock.

 

[Kiohio]

I am far from an engine builder but..... I'll share my ignorance anyway LOL

It would depend on what you are doing with it and realizing it's limits.

Just say you use stock everything except for what's needed to get you there-Turbo/injectors etc.

It would probably work for you just as it would for me.

Now if YOU came to ME and asked ME to build it for YOU.

It's getting the full treatment, because MY name is on it.

If you don't use the full 600hp day in day out you should be fine.

If you were a dedicated Dyno Junkie or a Puller, I'd (if I were you) want more ground work.

Along the same lines, as long as I had a back up ride, I'd do all the bolt-on stuff and run it till it puked.

While I was doing this I would look hard at ebay, craigslist etc until I found a motor to build from ground up.

The nicest thing about these engines are the fact that parts last so long they can bounce from motor to motor.

There's my 1/2 a cent LOL

BTI

 

[Hammer]

Well...

Having been thrashing mine since 99 and knowing what I spent to get to the plateau I am at I am going to have to agree with Mr. Janetty this time. To make a good daily,usable 600 hp driver,that starts upon command,no matter the outside temps or conditions and one you can hang a trailer on without fear I do not feel his estimate is far off. See there are many who say it can be done cheaper and I would say that is probably true also. BUT those who invest in just sloppily making power will never be comfortable enough to drive them like that from coast to coast.



One thing I have learned since going to a big single on a 12v is how much different they are to drive than a good small set of twins. What you need to do is decide what your goals are for the motor and then it would be alot easier to help point you the correct direction for your goals you want. I know my stack of bills is way higher than the small amount of 10g's quoted above and I have netted a very usable 540hp. Sure I want alot more but I also know I am on the ragged edge for daily driving now and need another vehicle to go any further.



One last thing when you decide to start...

Beware as there are many who say or will tell you that you can do with less to attain your goal. There are also those out there who will only post parts of what they did to get the number and not tell you the real story. I am constantly amazed at how the electronic truck owners can share info on their respective engine tunes and the older stubborn 12v owners only post their engine tunes with part of the story. Its kinda like looking at a piece of swiss cheese,loaded with lots of holes... ... ... . Andy

 

[edgeman]

Make sure you watch what your doing cause of your head and head gasket... . get ahold of shield diesel in indiana and talk to them also... very knoledgeable... . I just killed the head and the headgasket on my 97 and it is now getting very pricey... . I don't know when it is going to end... make sure you check out ATS Diesel transmission's... . 7500 alone for the transmission package that will handle around 1800 ftlbs of torque... I love mine... . Anyways let us know what goes on!

 

[tony597fitter]

Im with Joseph Donnelly on this one. Hes been doing it for alot longer than most of us.

Ted Jannettys list is a little far fetched.

I know of quite a few guys that have done 550-600 RWHP with pumpwork DONE ON THE TRUCK NOTHING CUSTOM (0 or 100 plate ground in the garage, AFC mods, Rack mods, 4 or 5 GSK, 18*-22* of timing), the injectors range between Marine 370 ($300) to DDP4s or II dragon flys, 62,64 or 66mm turbo, o-rings and studs (if you choose on the studs, but there is a few BIG name diesel shops that run trucks well over 1000hp on stock bolts), and of course a clutch or built transmission.



600+ has been done many times with a single turbo, twins makes it easier and less smokey.

 

[SRadke]

A good single is much less drivable and less expensive but it's biggest advantage is the ease of keeping the boost down will help you to get by with less head work.

-Scott

 

[tony597fitter]

A good single is much less drivable and less expensive but it's biggest advantage is the ease of keeping the boost down will help you to get by with less head work.



-Scott

I have $2500 invested in my twins with turbos.



My Silver64 ran me just under $2000.



I was able to tow my 6-7000# camper with the sig. I have, with my DDP4s all through the east coast and from Illinois to Disney World in Florida without a problem.

I am going to twins because the new camper weighs in at almost 12k loaded.

 

[SRadke]

Twins are night and day better for driveability. I won't argue that ever. A guy with some time, knowledge and skills can build a cheap set of twins for 2k but for a really nice set or buying a kit you're closer to 4k.

-Scott