Mallory 140 lift pump is Going! For the 2nd time!

[BIG BOB]

That's right, my second Mallory 140 is starting to act up. Unstable fuel pressure, even went down to 0 lbs today for about a minute. I have another new one I can put on, but I just put this one on right after Thanksgiving 2001. Probably have 8,000 miles on it. I would think someone would make a more reliable product. :{#@$%!



Has anybody had any sucess with any of the after market pumps?



I've been looking at the Holly "Blue Max". Anyone tried it?



How about the Aeromotive pumps? Do you need a regulator with them?



I see Borg-Warner is making electric fuel pumps now, with a Lifetime Warranty. Anyone tried them? I ordered a catalog.



Then I see Russell is making the "Ultra Flow II", anyone tried it? I emailed them asking if it was compatible with diesel, how it mounted and what the warranty was. It pressure is adjustable from 15 to 20 lbs. You can also buy rebuild kits for it. Looks promising.









:{

 

[EricBu12]

do you have a pusher pump or is that one back by the tank?



If you put it in the stock location, I don't care who makes it, an electric pump will fail if it has to pull fuel from a long distance.



I put a 7 psi 100 gph pump back by the tank and a 15 psi 100 gph pump replacement for the origional in stock location. now both pumps don't have to work hard and I have good pressure. not high, but good. 14 idle, 10-12 cruise, no less than 9 WOT.



See my pics in readers rigs onder the other pics albumn

 

[CUMINNTSTRKN]

bob



that sucks! i have had good luck with my holley red pump pushing the stock lift pump. the blue pump will work fine on it's own. i would buy the black pump instead, it doesn't come with a regulator but we don't need it anyway. i think the black pump is around $140 it flows 120gph at 9psi.



jim

 

[csutton7]

aeromotive pump will need an aeromotive regulator and a return line to the tank---some guys have tied into the OEM return line with good results--I ran a separate one and tied into the overflow tube off of the tank fill tube----(9 months--I'm gravity fed)



I tried the Holley (black) at the stock location and back by the tank and wasn't impressed with the pressure---of course I've got -8 lines so that could account for the pressure being low---it is now my spare



lots of guys have just been replacing the brushes--you could try that and see---good luck... ... ... ... . chris

 

[willyslover]

BB. . make sure you post here on which way you go and the results of the change . . thanks

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Major bummer

Bob I'm sorry to hear the Mallorys are not working out too well. And like you have lots of time on your hands to screw around with problems on your truck. . . I know you're really busy this time of year . Hope you find something more suitable.



I still haven't bombed mine yet. I finally hooked up a fuel pressure gauge and my stocker is working better than I thought, at 60,000+ miles now. At idle = 13psi and WOT with DD2s and CPC = 7psi. But I probably mentioned I will be putting in the Carter HP from Summit when I do BOMB. Evan and a few others have had decent luck with the Carter and they are fairly inexpensive. Just a thought.



Vaughn

 

[Jetpilot]

Bob,



Can you give us some info on your setup? I am running the same pump and I am trying to identify problem sources.



1) Where did you locate the Mallory?

2) Did you use the stock fuel lines or install new ones?

3) Did you run a pre-filter, if so which one?

4) What psi did you have your pump set to at idle?



Thanks for the info, hope you find a good solution soon.



Doug

 

[John]

That REALLY sucks Big Bob!

Big Bob, are you using any Diesel fuel additive? If so, are you adding it at every fillup? Just wondering. Is there anything I can help you with?



Jet pilot, Bob doesn't have exactly the same pump as you... Bob has the Mallory 4150 (same as Bigsaint). I have the Mallory 4140M (as you do). So far I haven't had ANY problems. I have had it installed for around six months now and over 12k or so mi.



Bob is also running a Racor prefilter although, I'm not sure what model he has. I DO KNOW he had a 30 micron filter element in the Racor filter and was not using the OE filter (i. e. OE filter element removed). I believe he later decided to reinstall his OE fuel filter element for an added margin of safety though.



Additionally, Bob has a set of -06 AN Aeroquip lines from the OE hard lines on the frame to the VP44 inlet. Other than that, I believe he is using the existing (OE) fuel supply system other than what was required to plumb in the Mallory nearer to the fuel tank outlet. Bob's Mallory 4150 pump is mounted on the inside frame rail, ahead of the fuel tank and aft of the skid plate. The Racor prefilter is mounted (and plumbed in) just upstream of the Mallory pump.

 

[Morphious]

BB, I have been running the mallory pump for the last year. My first one went out after 60k miles and I replaced it with a new one. My second pump went out a few weeks ago, but instead of replacing it, I installed a new set of brushes in my original one, reinstalled the first pump and I am back in business. All it cost me was an hour of time and a 16. 00 set of brushes.



Morph.

 

[BIG BOB]

Today the Mallory quit!

John knows my truck almost as well as I do! And he is 325 miles away! What a great guy!



Just one change I had made that John didn't know about, last November when I put on the 2nd Mallory, I change the Racor filter to a 10 micron and continue to leave the stock filter out.



Today the Mallory quit! #@$%! Like I mentioned, I had another one, the 1st one that was warrantied by Summit. I put it on in about 30 minutes.



I talked with Piers today and he thought that a 10 micron filter before a high volume pump requires the pump to work too hard. He felt that this is why the pump didn't last. He suggested as John stated about the 30 micron before the pump and the stock filter after the pump. I am going to make this change, the Racor back to a 30 micron filter and reinstall the stock filter in it's original canister to protect the injection pump. (Just like John thought I had already had done. Is he psychic or what?)







The pump that went out today, I got at Century Performance Center. I'll call them tomorrow and request this pump be covered under warranty.



The pump is very easy to replace where I have it mounted on the frame rail, it is just to hassle to have to do it, especially when you don't know when it's going to quit.



Still looking for a more reliable pump, keep the input coming! I appreciate everyone input!

 

[SEmerson]

My brushes wore out fast on my mallery. I think it was less that 10k. I replaced them and added alot of dielectric grease to them. And have about 15 k on them and still running.

 

[Bigsaint]

BOB, I FEEL YOUR PAIN !!!



I'm on my 3rd and it ain't doing so great right now after a short 3. 5 months. I know, I know. . replace the brushes... you know what, I shouldn't have to. I'm tired of the Mallory and I am about to try something new. I have a new pump enroute as we speak from these guys http://www.productengr.com/PE_4300.htm . I ordered a PE4100 set @ 17 psi's. Actually, I ordered the pump through a fellow TDR member CScott. Craig is a drag racer and he is about to try the same pump as I am on his own rig.



The PEpump is built by Product Engineering. They bench test each pump for 30 minutes with DIESEL before shipping and warranty the pump for 2 years (unconditional). I spoke with Mike at PE and they have a real interest in helping us with this dilemma. The pump is internally bypassed, 7 vaned. You can choose your psi's before they ship and the adjust same internally. There is no need for a external bypass regulater and they actually asked me to remove my Earl's screen filter before the install, as they believe that the pumps tolerances are large enough to handle the small amount of debris that may come through without a filter. The motor is rated for continous duty, something that I don't believe you can say for the Mallory (quite obvious if we are burning up brushes after 6 months of use). It's not the cheapest pump at $300. 00. But if it lasts as they believe it will, it's worth it.



I should have mine by Monday, next week and plan on installing same a. s. a. p.



Personally, I'm done with the Mallory as a daily pump. I'll keep my two as back ups, but the time has come for me to try something different.



Scott W.

 

[Evan A. Beck]

24,000 miles/7months on my Carter 4601HP pump, and its working great. 14 psi at idle, 13 psi at 75mph, and 6 psi at WOT (DD3's. PE EZ).

 

[Jetpilot]

Scott,



That looks like a great pump! If/when my Mallory decides to not perform I think I might give that pump a try... . I was leaning towards the aeromotive but from what I can see this pump may be superior.



Keep us all posted on your findings.



Doug

 

[Bigsaint]

You bet Doug. I have no idea how this pump will perform, but I'm not helping anyone find a solution by constantly swaping out Mallory pumps. The one I'm running now must know it's days are numbered, it's really been behaving the last two days, LOL.



The Aeromotive that CSutton is running looks great and it was my next choice, until CScott posted about the other pump. I'm going to order two sets of brushes for the Mallory tonite from Century Performance. I'll repair this Mallory and keep it for a spare, along with the other Mallory that is already re-built. Hope yours lasts for ya, maybe the difference between the 4150 and the Marine version is the key to better longevity ??? I'm just burned out on the 4150 and ready to start experimenting with something different.



2 days and counting to the dyno . Looking forward to the results.



Scott W.

 

[BIG BOB]

Scott,



I with you on the Mallory! When Century Performance warranties this last Mallory, I will keep it for a backup, and will be looking to try something new. Please keep us informed on the New PE pump!



I often wonder if we are maybe going in the wrong direction, what I mean is with these "High Flow" or 140+ GPH pumps. Should we reconsider a lower volume pump? If you remember when Bill K. and Mopar-Muscle did the flow tests, they came to the conclusion, if I remember right, that under WOT our Cummins would only use somewhere around 15 gallons per hour. (The search isn't working, otherwise I look up that loooonnnng post for the exact numbers) My point is, are we working these High Flow pump too hard because of the line restrictions our system puts on them?



I know the PE pump has an internal by-pass, but that a lot of fuel to by-pass.



Just some thoughts. Anyone else have any thoughts?

 

[Bigsaint]

Bob, I agree 110%. I'm not really thrilled about it's rated flow of 270 GPH, beyond overkill for our needs. What made my mind up to try the PE was the fact that it is a 7 vaned pump, rather than gerator design and the two year unconditional warranty. PE doesn't seem concerned about the pumps capacity Vs. our needs, time will tell. Atleast you have a spare and it didn't strand you, gotta love the FP gauge. I'm just getting real tired of keeping a constant vigil over the pump, takes away from the enjoyment of owning a great truck.



I'm starting to wonder if the effects of cold and winter blend diesel are what kills the Mallory so quickly. If you look at my track record... the first Mallory was installed in late Jan. '01, lasted 4 months. I installed the second in late May '01, lasted 8 months. I installed the 3rd in Jan. '02, starting to show signs of loosing psi's after 3. 5 months. I use Stanadyne PF at every fill up and never go below 1/2 a tank of fuel. ???? Nowel (HVAC) ran his 140 series for over a year before it sputtered ( warm climate). John has 6 months on his now in WA, not exactly a warm climate I'm guessing but I don't believe he sees the lows that you do and guessing again that our winters here in NWNJ are somewhat colder. Maybe I'm way off, but I'm seeing a pattern.



Scott W.

 

[csutton7]

not being gravity fed is what I think is the problem---all electric pumps like to be gravity fed-plain and simple--but hey not to many people are going to do what I did and punch a hole in the bottom of our tanks--so maybe this new pump will work fine--sure hope so, but time will tell as it always does---I'm hoping mine will keep on pumping also---I also think a separate return line is smart, but again time is the issue here and we've only been running these different pumps for a couple of years and not to many people have had any longevity to speak of---ynott has 2 years on his dual pump setup and that's the best one for length of time that I know of... ... chris

 

[Bigsaint]

Chris, I know you are big on the gravity feed, for good reason since the Aermotive is still alive. My question is how much of a gravity feed is needed for the pump. My Mallory is gravity fed also, although not to the same extend as yours is with a bung in the bottom of the tank. While mine is more of a siphon effect, trust me, I get a good bath in diesel everytime I remove the braided line from the inlet to the Mallory, the flow is neverending, at least with a 1/2 tank or more of fuel. I never measured the free flow of fuel, but I'd take a guess at a minimum of 1/2 gal. per minute. If it's free flowing that much without the pump, shouldn't that be enough to keep the pump lubricated when it's sucking/pushing fuel ??? I have no idea, just thinking out loud.



It would be interesting to hook a Vac. gauge to both of our set ups and see how much more Vac. I have over yours, pre-pump. I'm going to move my pressure port adapter to pre-pump as I need a -8AN to 3/8"NPT fitting to adapt the bulkhead shut off into my new set up. Right now I'm using the port to moniter fuel temp. , if time permits I'll hook up a vac. gauge and see how much it's sucking pre-lift pump.



Scott W.

 

[csutton7]

siphon vs. gravity--- I got no idea---you're burning up pumps still, I burned up pumps with the siphon system---is it the pumps---who knows--to early to tell still for my money----I wonder if you can set up your FP guage like you say, disconnect pump wire and fuel feed to the pump and then let the fuel dump into a bucket with the ignition on and see what it registers--then connect everything back on turn on the ignition, don't start it just let the pump run--see what pressure you have and then check it with the truck running---that will give us some data on how much pressure a siphoned pump sucks---can always do the vacuum thing later--but the vac would be good info also----just keep ya from having to buy another guage----keep us posted... . chris