Attention: TDR Forum Junkies 
Hi everybody, first post here.
I'll apologize in advance- this is going to be a LENGTHY post. But, if you're in the mood for a bit of a storytime/rant with some questions sprinkled in, today's your lucky day...
I have a 2004 5.9HO/48RE/4WD QCLB 3500 that I picked up dirt cheap as a spare shop truck years ago. Didn't think much of it at first, but over time, I really took a liking to it... Truck is nearly bone stock besides a MBRP exhaust, mild Smarty tune, and a leveling kit with 4th gen wheels and slightly bigger tires (34.6" OD).
Of course- 48RE problems right from the jump... However I managed to string the first one along with basic upgrades/bandaids for about 60K miles. Eventually, the infamous (forward?) drum snap ring failure took out my reverse. Trans was already pretty shot right from the beginning, so I'll call that a win...
My buddy ended up selling me an ALLEGEDLY GREAT "freshly rebuilt" 48RE out of a truck he was parting out. Before installing, I dropped the pan and installed my old upgraded valve body as well as a slightly higher stall single disc converter. The trans had WAY too much metal in the pan for my liking- I knew it wouldn't last long. Either way, I pushed on because my other truck was down at the time and I really needed this one on the road. Sure enough, as predicted, the turd lasted 1000 miles before it fully took a dump. Maybe a front pump failure, I don't know, don't care, (now I'm pissed) and I have no interest in going in to another automatic transmission ever again.
TIME FOR A MANUAL SWAP. (Every other vehicle I own is manual, might as well make this one fit in too, right?)
So, my buddy who sold me the second trans feels bad and "warrantys" me an "NV4500" from another parts truck he had. I go ahead and sell my two trans cores and some spare tcases to the local core guy. Hopefully with that cash I can offset the cost of this little project...
Finally we get around to pulling the trans out of the donor truck. WOW, THATS WEIRD- this "NV4500" says GETRAG on the side of it... It was at this point that I learned there was actually a whole other oddball trans that came before the NV4500 in the first gens. Oh, and I already sold off ALL my other parts. Uh oh...
OK so you guys probably see where this is going by now. "Some idiot is trying to put a turd G360 into a 3rd gen"... Well, let me give you my reasoning for why I want to see this project through:
-This G360 is actually very freshly rebuilt. I know they aren't the greatest, but the general consensus is that they are "strong enough for most things" and that adding an extra quart of lube over suggested capacity does help mitigate the heat issues.
-This is a spare truck that I don't want to spend an arm and a leg on. It's just a backup.
-Truck isn't crazy souped up/making a ton of power nor do I ever tow heavy with it. (Truck is unloaded 95% of the time. Most towing work I do with this truck is moving motorcycles on a 10 or 16ft trailer- no real weight there. I maybe tow 1-2 cars a year. That's about it.)
-If my measurements are correct, I will be able to use my original driveshafts on this swap which is a HUGE cost savings for me (remember- this is a spare truck, not my pride and joy).
-All my 48RE's are gone now, and I DO NOT want to go through the trouble of selling this and trying to find an NV4500/NV5600/G56.
Alright... So with that said, here's where I'm at. I have been in contact with the folks at longrangegear.com (seriously kind, helpful, knowledgeable people by the way) and I've learned much about some of the speed bumps I must overcome here.
1- I did not realize that early 1st gen block adapter plates were thinner than the late style (and supposedly have a different starter location). I wish it were as simple as bolting on a 1st gen adapter, but from what I have heard, the bolt pattern on the block is different for common rail motors. Can anyone confirm this? Nonetheless, I plan to take my existing 48RE plate and mill it down to the correct thickness, restore/re-tap all threaded holes, and hope it'll do. Curious if I'll need to run a starter spacer, though. I can't seem to find info on protrusion differences between 1st and 3rd gen flywheels. I do know that the ring gears/overall diameter are the same, though. *I think this'll work.*
2- As for the transfer case, from what I can deduce all should be fine so long as I swap the input gear in my NV271D to a 29 spline unit which seems to be cheap and readily available. I plan to use a tcase clocking ring to hopefully achieve the correct tcase drop. It *seems like* the original NP205 and my 271 share a common bolt pattern, although internet data on this is sketchy at best. Please let me know if you think I'm missing anything here.
3- Alright, THIS right here is my biggest issue by far... Of course, a 1st gen runs a passenger side front driveshaft. My 3rd gen does not. In most manual swap cases this does not matter. But, since these trucks use an external slave cylinder, and that fat ass bracket and slave are totally in the way of my front driveshaft... I have a problem. My initial plan to remedy this was to convert to an "internal slave cylinder" or some people call them hydraulic release bearings. I thought this was an ace in the hole HOWEVER the more I looked into it, the worse it got...
First and easiest plan was to make a bracket and adapt a Ford M5OD-R2 release bearing that was laying around my shop. As you can probably guess, no shot on that... But OK, makes sense, it's a much lighter duty transmission, no problem.
Second plan was to use a Viper T56 unit. No good.
Third plan was to adapt a GM NV4500 internal slave for the job (thanks to insight from the guys at Long Range Gear). Seemed easy enough until I started looking at detailed measurements- evidently these trash chevy's use a lighter duty NV with a 1/8" smaller input shaft... Part won't even slide on the shaft of the G360. If I were to throw it on the lathe and bore it out, I'd surely destroy it.
FOURTH plan was to pony up the cash and buy a fancy billet racing type slave cylinder. "Surely they'll have the specs and dimensions I need available!" Well, no, that is not the case... Looked at McLeod, Tilton, and a few others. None of them offer anything fat enough for this input shaft size and bearing face contact area. I did find some guy from Australia that was selling NV4500 hydraulic release bearings (NV4500 shares the same snout diameter as G360 at 1.750") at a WILDLY high price over $700 USD a pop. I was about ready to order it, however, upon further inspection the flat-face bearing is way too small for what a standard G360 clutch requires. Can't remember off the top of my head right now but from what I recall I need something that will work in the 3.200"-3.400" range.
FIFTH PLAN- OK FINE, I'll do it the hard way... I'll keep the external slave, but slice a hole in the bellhousing and move it to the opposite side. I don't see any issues with relocating the clutch fork pivot ball to the other side, nor fabricating a mount for the slave cylinder, however I have some questions about the hydraulics...
Of course, I'll be using a standard 3rd gen clutch master cylinder and OEM pedal box assembly (MC is 0.690" bore if I remember correctly). I feel like I should use a 3rd gen slave cylinder with this to maintain the correct hydraulic ratio (0.827" slave cylinder bore, please correct me if I'm wrong). Where things get a bit messy here is that I'm essentially trying to determine if a NV4500 hydraulic system (which uses a very different clutch fork setup) can properly actuate a G360 clutch fork. The main variable here is I have no idea of the differences in pedal linkage geometry/ratio between the two. I do have my G360 clutch fork to measure against but I guess what I'm really asking here is- does anyone know the actual stroke the slave cylinder is supposed to travel on these trucks? I guess in order to do this properly I need those specs for 1st and 3rd gen trucks... Sadly it seems like this measurement is not really a commonly published one. If that dimension is not obtainable, does anyone have slave->fulcrum->throwout measurements for a NV4500 clutch fork? As well as pedal ratio info for 1st vs 3rd gen trucks? I think I have enough data on my side to do the calculations on that... All I know is the NV forks are quite different from this Getrag one, and I must assume that the pedal assemblies work quite a bit different, as well.
If you've made it this far in the post, thanks for listening. Yeah, I've certainly worked myself into a bit of a hole here, but I am determined to see this dumb ass project through...
Any insight is greatly appreciated!!!
-Austin
I'll apologize in advance- this is going to be a LENGTHY post. But, if you're in the mood for a bit of a storytime/rant with some questions sprinkled in, today's your lucky day...
I have a 2004 5.9HO/48RE/4WD QCLB 3500 that I picked up dirt cheap as a spare shop truck years ago. Didn't think much of it at first, but over time, I really took a liking to it... Truck is nearly bone stock besides a MBRP exhaust, mild Smarty tune, and a leveling kit with 4th gen wheels and slightly bigger tires (34.6" OD).
Of course- 48RE problems right from the jump... However I managed to string the first one along with basic upgrades/bandaids for about 60K miles. Eventually, the infamous (forward?) drum snap ring failure took out my reverse. Trans was already pretty shot right from the beginning, so I'll call that a win...
My buddy ended up selling me an ALLEGEDLY GREAT "freshly rebuilt" 48RE out of a truck he was parting out. Before installing, I dropped the pan and installed my old upgraded valve body as well as a slightly higher stall single disc converter. The trans had WAY too much metal in the pan for my liking- I knew it wouldn't last long. Either way, I pushed on because my other truck was down at the time and I really needed this one on the road. Sure enough, as predicted, the turd lasted 1000 miles before it fully took a dump. Maybe a front pump failure, I don't know, don't care, (now I'm pissed) and I have no interest in going in to another automatic transmission ever again.
TIME FOR A MANUAL SWAP. (Every other vehicle I own is manual, might as well make this one fit in too, right?)
So, my buddy who sold me the second trans feels bad and "warrantys" me an "NV4500" from another parts truck he had. I go ahead and sell my two trans cores and some spare tcases to the local core guy. Hopefully with that cash I can offset the cost of this little project...
Finally we get around to pulling the trans out of the donor truck. WOW, THATS WEIRD- this "NV4500" says GETRAG on the side of it... It was at this point that I learned there was actually a whole other oddball trans that came before the NV4500 in the first gens. Oh, and I already sold off ALL my other parts. Uh oh...
OK so you guys probably see where this is going by now. "Some idiot is trying to put a turd G360 into a 3rd gen"... Well, let me give you my reasoning for why I want to see this project through:
-This G360 is actually very freshly rebuilt. I know they aren't the greatest, but the general consensus is that they are "strong enough for most things" and that adding an extra quart of lube over suggested capacity does help mitigate the heat issues.
-This is a spare truck that I don't want to spend an arm and a leg on. It's just a backup.
-Truck isn't crazy souped up/making a ton of power nor do I ever tow heavy with it. (Truck is unloaded 95% of the time. Most towing work I do with this truck is moving motorcycles on a 10 or 16ft trailer- no real weight there. I maybe tow 1-2 cars a year. That's about it.)
-If my measurements are correct, I will be able to use my original driveshafts on this swap which is a HUGE cost savings for me (remember- this is a spare truck, not my pride and joy).
-All my 48RE's are gone now, and I DO NOT want to go through the trouble of selling this and trying to find an NV4500/NV5600/G56.
Alright... So with that said, here's where I'm at. I have been in contact with the folks at longrangegear.com (seriously kind, helpful, knowledgeable people by the way) and I've learned much about some of the speed bumps I must overcome here.
1- I did not realize that early 1st gen block adapter plates were thinner than the late style (and supposedly have a different starter location). I wish it were as simple as bolting on a 1st gen adapter, but from what I have heard, the bolt pattern on the block is different for common rail motors. Can anyone confirm this? Nonetheless, I plan to take my existing 48RE plate and mill it down to the correct thickness, restore/re-tap all threaded holes, and hope it'll do. Curious if I'll need to run a starter spacer, though. I can't seem to find info on protrusion differences between 1st and 3rd gen flywheels. I do know that the ring gears/overall diameter are the same, though. *I think this'll work.*
2- As for the transfer case, from what I can deduce all should be fine so long as I swap the input gear in my NV271D to a 29 spline unit which seems to be cheap and readily available. I plan to use a tcase clocking ring to hopefully achieve the correct tcase drop. It *seems like* the original NP205 and my 271 share a common bolt pattern, although internet data on this is sketchy at best. Please let me know if you think I'm missing anything here.
3- Alright, THIS right here is my biggest issue by far... Of course, a 1st gen runs a passenger side front driveshaft. My 3rd gen does not. In most manual swap cases this does not matter. But, since these trucks use an external slave cylinder, and that fat ass bracket and slave are totally in the way of my front driveshaft... I have a problem. My initial plan to remedy this was to convert to an "internal slave cylinder" or some people call them hydraulic release bearings. I thought this was an ace in the hole HOWEVER the more I looked into it, the worse it got...
First and easiest plan was to make a bracket and adapt a Ford M5OD-R2 release bearing that was laying around my shop. As you can probably guess, no shot on that... But OK, makes sense, it's a much lighter duty transmission, no problem.
Second plan was to use a Viper T56 unit. No good.
Third plan was to adapt a GM NV4500 internal slave for the job (thanks to insight from the guys at Long Range Gear). Seemed easy enough until I started looking at detailed measurements- evidently these trash chevy's use a lighter duty NV with a 1/8" smaller input shaft... Part won't even slide on the shaft of the G360. If I were to throw it on the lathe and bore it out, I'd surely destroy it.
FOURTH plan was to pony up the cash and buy a fancy billet racing type slave cylinder. "Surely they'll have the specs and dimensions I need available!" Well, no, that is not the case... Looked at McLeod, Tilton, and a few others. None of them offer anything fat enough for this input shaft size and bearing face contact area. I did find some guy from Australia that was selling NV4500 hydraulic release bearings (NV4500 shares the same snout diameter as G360 at 1.750") at a WILDLY high price over $700 USD a pop. I was about ready to order it, however, upon further inspection the flat-face bearing is way too small for what a standard G360 clutch requires. Can't remember off the top of my head right now but from what I recall I need something that will work in the 3.200"-3.400" range.
FIFTH PLAN- OK FINE, I'll do it the hard way... I'll keep the external slave, but slice a hole in the bellhousing and move it to the opposite side. I don't see any issues with relocating the clutch fork pivot ball to the other side, nor fabricating a mount for the slave cylinder, however I have some questions about the hydraulics...
Of course, I'll be using a standard 3rd gen clutch master cylinder and OEM pedal box assembly (MC is 0.690" bore if I remember correctly). I feel like I should use a 3rd gen slave cylinder with this to maintain the correct hydraulic ratio (0.827" slave cylinder bore, please correct me if I'm wrong). Where things get a bit messy here is that I'm essentially trying to determine if a NV4500 hydraulic system (which uses a very different clutch fork setup) can properly actuate a G360 clutch fork. The main variable here is I have no idea of the differences in pedal linkage geometry/ratio between the two. I do have my G360 clutch fork to measure against but I guess what I'm really asking here is- does anyone know the actual stroke the slave cylinder is supposed to travel on these trucks? I guess in order to do this properly I need those specs for 1st and 3rd gen trucks... Sadly it seems like this measurement is not really a commonly published one. If that dimension is not obtainable, does anyone have slave->fulcrum->throwout measurements for a NV4500 clutch fork? As well as pedal ratio info for 1st vs 3rd gen trucks? I think I have enough data on my side to do the calculations on that... All I know is the NV forks are quite different from this Getrag one, and I must assume that the pedal assemblies work quite a bit different, as well.
If you've made it this far in the post, thanks for listening. Yeah, I've certainly worked myself into a bit of a hole here, but I am determined to see this dumb ass project through...
Any insight is greatly appreciated!!!
-Austin
.
