Max trailer Weight

[PBliss]

I have been reading some threads about GCWR and had a few questions. I have the truck in my sig with 3. 73 gears, according to the door tag GAWR front : 5500 GAWR Rear: 9350.

The total would be 14850 minus the curb weight of the truck plus the pin weight of trailer.

Say the truck is 8000 then you would be left with 6850.



Some trailers I am looking at are 18K max which would make the pin weight 3600. 18000 minus 3600 = 14400 triple axle 4800 per axle.

Is my math right?

Am I crazy to tow an 18k TH with my pickup? I know that I can pull a lot more than I can stop or control.

Thanks in advance

 

[BIGNASTY]

Your opening a very LARGE can of worm with that question. Hang on to your shorts cause the S is going to hit the fan. All kidding aside you will hear a bunch of different views on this subject.

 

[AH64ID]

On a DRW truck really you need to pay attention to a few things. GVWR is 12,300 lbs, which is the max weight of the truck, with the trailer attached and full of whatever you take with you. It's lower than the FAWR + RAWR, but that's what Dodge rates the truck (frame, suspension, etc) for. That's I number I would avoid exceeding. Then ensure you don't exceed FAWR. If your at/under FAWR and GVWR then your RAWR will be fine.



As for stopping and controlling you should be good with a good trailer brake.



It is a heavy trailer, that is probably more suited for a 4500; however, the new Max Tow will be rated to tow that trailer and suspension/brake wise you have the same truck. The main difference in the Max Tow and your truck (other than the power, and associated power holding parts) is the 4. 10 rear end, but thats for go, not whoa.

 

[HBarlow]

I"ve pulled trailers that weighed that much and more when I was transporting for compensation. I absolutely would not tow that heavy with a Ram 3500 dually on a routine basis for pleasure.

I think if you weigh your truck you'll probably find it is closer to 9,000 lbs. with a fifth wheel hitch and any other accessories such as an auxilliary fuel tank you might decide to add later. Truck GVWR should not be ignored. You could get pulled into a weigh scale and weighed. Some states, particularly in the current economic climate, are cash strapped and looking for revenue. Some love regulating everything that moves or does not move.

An 18k trailer could place as much as 4,500 lbs. on the hitch. Rule of thumb is 20% to 25% for estimating kingpin weight. Does or will the trailer have a generator? A genset adds a lot of forward weight to kingpin weight.

I predict that if you buy one that heavy you are likely to regret it. You'll find towing that heavy is a chore requiring a lot of attention instead of a pleasure that you can relax and enjoy. If you will be a full-time RVer and only move the trailer with the seasons it might be acceptable. For weekend camping and vacationing I don't think you'll be satisfied. The truck will pull it and with a MaxBrake controller and triple axle brakes you'll be able to stop it.

The 3. 73 geared trucks are not rated by Ram to tow as much as one with 4. 10 gears for good reason. Your truck will downshift on almost every grade. You'll feel the truck and driveline strain on starting, particularly on a grade, and you'll spend a lot of time running in fourth direct locking out the two overdrive ratios. Your signature indicates you live in Colorado. Obviously mountains must be considered in CO.

This is probably not what you wanted to hear but you recognized the trailers you are considering are at the outer limits of the truck's capability.

My fifth wheel weighs 14k. That's all I want to tow for pleasure and my C&C has better gearing in the Aisin and a 4. 10 differential. An 18k trailer is better suited for a MDT or, at minimum, a Ram 4500.

In summary, I would look at trailers no heavier than 14k to 16k.

 

[AH64ID]

Curb weight on your truck is 7900lbs (4788/3112), so you will be at least 8500 lbs with hitch, yourself, passengers, misc stuff. That leaves you approx 3800lbs for pin weight and gear loading.



Ratings are funny thou, my 05 SRW truck is rated to tow 750 lbs more than your 11 DRW. That's mainly because the GCWR's are the same, and my truck is lighter. It's one of the reasons I feel some of the numbers can be fudged, but some cant.

My fifth wheel weighs 14k. That's all I want to tow for pleasure and my C&C has better gearing in the Aisin and a 4. 10 differential. An 18k trailer is better suited for a MDT or, at minimum, a Ram 4500.

Interesting enough the Aisin has higher gearing in 3rd and 5th, where 4th and 6th are the same, with the higher tq rating of the pickup vs the C&C the 68RFE does have an advantge, but the C&C will probably last longer at the same GCWR. 4. 10's do make a difference, as at any given rpm you get 10% more tq to the wheels with them over 3. 73's.



I don't know how the trans tuning and tq converters are different in the two, so those comments are purely from a gearing standpoint.

In summary, I would look at trailers no heavier than 14k to 16k.

That's a pretty safe range to look for a Trailer GVWR in. Much easier to tow than 18K. But the truck will tow 18K just fine, but the driver work load is a bit more.

 

[PBliss]

Thanks for the replies.

I am still doing research on which/what TH to buy. I have read maybe too much, and wanted to hear from guys with real world experience. I just felt that 18k was to much weight for comfort. I don't want weekend trips to be white knuckle drives to and from. I do live in Colorado, and yes to the west are some big mountains with steep grades etc.

I wanted to know what weight would be a good target, so I could narrow down my choice.

 

[HBarlow]

... ... ... ... ... ...

Interesting enough the Aisin has higher gearing in 3rd and 5th, where 4th and 6th are the same, with the higher tq rating of the pickup vs the C&C the 68RFE does have an advantge, but the C&C will probably last longer at the same GCWR. 4. 10's do make a difference, as at any given rpm you get 10% more tq to the wheels with them over 3. 73's.

I don't know how the trans tuning and tq converters are different in the two, so those comments are purely from a gearing standpoint.
... ... ... ... .....

I haven't looked at the factory brochure or thought about the issue for years but IIRC first and second gear ranges in the Aisin were lower for better startability. Is that not correct?

 

[AH64ID]

1st and 2nd are lower in the Aisin, it's 3rd and 5th that are higher. Which makes sense based on the applications, with C&C's being more work trucks they will probably spend more time starting and stopping with a load, where pickups will probably spend more time empty, and when they are loaded they are going somewhere for recreation. Not a absolute statement, but probably a safe generalization.

 

[AH64ID]

1st and 2nd are lower in the Aisin, it's 3rd and 5th that are higher. Which makes sense based on the applications, with C&C's being more work trucks they will probably spend more time starting and stopping with a load, where pickups will probably spend more time empty, and when they are loaded they are going somewhere for recreation. Not a absolute statement, but probably a safe generalization.

 

[RVTRKN]

So here is the S, your 3:73 will be OK, its just that when you climb slight grades at 55 (California) you will be hunting for the right gear, don't know much about your truck, (not in Sig. ) but with my G56 its a PITA. But once I'm out of California its 65-70 MPH and away goes my problem. What ever trans you have, run it in one gear lower than a 4:10 would run. And service your pumpkin regularly, with the OEM oil. (OK the S again) The 3:73 is a good compromise from the 3:54 being too low and 4:10 too high if you drive in the City a lot. I wouldn't hesitate to pull that, as long as the Axle ratings are not overloaded. As far as being a chore to drive, thats part of the fun is it not? I love a challenge and never worry about my load, as long as I double check my rig and if I'm legal, that doesn't mean I would buy a setup to the max out the rig, if I haven't purchased it yet. But at the same time, the RV's get small quick, and if your a full timer, the first week.



I would buy an RV that was capable of all of my toys and still stay within the Axle ratings with a little weight to spare. If I had to purchase the truck and that trailer at the same time, it would be a 4500, but you have the truck, so its capable and I would, if Axle ratings aren't exceeded

 

[BHaden]

Also; Anything over 15k trailer weight needs a class A license, does it not?

 

[RustyJC]

Also; Anything over 15k trailer weight needs a class A license, does it not?

In Texas, GCWR of 26,001 lbs or over requires a non-commercial Class A. GCWR of 26,000 lbs or less (regardless of trailer weight) requires only a non-commercial Class C.



Rusty

 

[AH64ID]

Also; Anything over 15k trailer weight needs a class A license, does it not?

It depends on what state you are a resident of.

 

[HBarlow]

In Texas, GCWR of 26,001 lbs or over requires a non-commercial Class A. GCWR of 26,000 lbs or less (regardless of trailer weight) requires only a non-commercial Class C.

Rusty

Rusty,

That's accurate but for one tiny little "R. "

The way it is enforced is GCW or GCWR meaning gross combined actual weight over the scales or gross combined weight ratings of more than 26k requires a Class A Operator's License (non-commercial).

 

[RustyJC]

From the Texas Transportation Code, non-commercial driver's license section. If you want to compare to the CDL requirements, Sec. 522 deals with the CDL classifications.

SUBCHAPTER D. CLASSIFICATION OF DRIVER'S LICENSES



Sec. 521. 081. CLASS A LICENSE.



A Class A driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:



(1) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more; or



(2) a combination of vehicles that has a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, if the gross vehicle weight rating of any vehicle or vehicles in tow is more than 10,000 pounds.



Acts 1995, 74th Leg. , ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.





Sec. 521. 082. CLASS B LICENSE.



(a) A Class B driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:



(1) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating that is more than 26,000 pounds;



(2) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,000 pounds or more towing:



(A) a vehicle, other than a farm trailer, with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 10,000 pounds; or



(B) a farm trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 20,000 pounds; and



(3) a bus with a seating capacity of 24 passengers or more.



(b) For the purposes of Subsection (a)(3), seating capacity is computed in accordance with Section 502. 162, except that the operator's seat is included in the computation.



Acts 1995, 74th Leg. , ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.





Sec. 521. 083. CLASS C LICENSE.



A Class C driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:



(1) a vehicle or combination of vehicles not described by Section 521. 081 or 521. 082; and



(2) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 26,001 pounds towing a farm trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 20,000 pounds

.

Acts 1995, 74th Leg. , ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

Rusty

 

[HBarlow]

Rusty,

I know what the code says but I also know how truck weight laws are enforced.

Do you really want fellow TDR members who have seen a Ram brochure for their year of truck that says their truck has a GCWR of 24,000 lbs. (like mine) to believe that they can safely run around towing their heavy fifthwheel or gooseneck with a combined weight across the scales of 26,500 or 27,000 lbs. with an ordinary Class C operator's license and be immune from a ticket if they get checked?

My truck has a GCWR of only 24,000 lbs. but when my truck and trailer are loaded for vacation travel it exceeds 26k. I don't want to attempt to play word games that I know I will lose with a TX trooper so I have a Class A Operator's License.

If TDR members know the facts, they can make their own decisions.

 

[RustyJC]

I'm not going to debate the subject again with you, Harvey. What I say doesn't matter; what the governing law says does.



Rusty

 

[PBliss]

I found a TH this weekend unloaded the weight is 13K. I figure that without water, and with cargo I will be adding maybe 3K that includes the toys. That would put me at about 16K. Talking with alot of guys, they get water close to where they camp. It holds 148 gallons times 8. 3lbs is 1228lbs. I think I would be comfortable with that.

Colorado is also 26001 requires CDL.

 

[HBarlow]

I'm not going to debate the subject again with you, Harvey. What I say doesn't matter; what the governing law says does.

Rusty

Rusty,

I decided it would be nicer to respond in this way rather than a bit harshly as I did earlier and deleted my earlier post.

I have no interest in debating the issue either. There is really nothing to debate. You have repeatedly quoted the TX code and we both agree on what it says. No argument there.

I have repeatedly posted that DOT enforcement officers enforce weights by relying on actual scale weights and the total rated weight when the GVWR tags of tow vehicle and towed vehicle are added together. If either rated or actual scale weight exceed 26k lbs. a Class A license is required.

If the towed vehicle is an RV towed by the owner for personal use only the driver is exempt from the requirement to have a commercial CDL Class A but must have a non-commercial Class A Operator's License.

As far as I know, you don't disagree with that. So we have nothing to debate.

Our disagreement is based on interpretation of the code. You apparently believe that the manufacturer's stated GCWR, not actual weight is key and believe it is legal for you to tow combined weight that exceeds 26k without a Class A license because your truck's GCWR is 26k, the limit stated in the TX code.

I strongly disagree and do so based on several years of commercial hauling and many trips across the scales, visits to have my documents examined in the scale houses of the lower 48 and Canada, and numerous roadside inspections as well as CDL and classroom commercial driver training. I KNOW that rated or actual weight is used by enforcement officers.

The purpose of the law is clearly to ensure that motorists driving heavy single vehicles like box trucks or motorhomes or towing trailers that, when combined with the tow vehicle, exceed 26k lbs. demonstrate specialized additional knowledge and skill in order to safely operate their vehicles on the public roadways.

It is up to you and of no concern to me how you choose to interpret the statute or what license you choose to have.

My purpose in continuing this discussion, as I stated earlier, is allowing TDR members to know the facts so they can decide how they will deal with the issue in their own way.

If they naively believe that as long as their truck has a GCWR of 26k or less, even though they are operating at a combined weight in excess of 26k, they will get themselves in trouble if checked and I believe we can expect greater enforcement in the future.