modifications DPF???

[DSorrells]

I have a friend with an 6. 7L standard trans truck. He is considering a 5" turbo back exhaust w/ DPF delete, and a Smarty to stop the regen. He understands the warranty issues in doing this. He also understands the EPA issues in doing this. Currently in Oklahoma we do not have inspections of any kind. Do the trucks really perform that much better doing a mod like this? Do you really get a significant increase in MPG doing this? Thanks for your help.

 

[RVTRKN]

Yes, but if the EPA catches him it could be up to 25K dollar fine. I would love to remove mine but here in California they are strict. The DPF system is a Federal issue and the EPA can fine him.

 

[2Rowdy]

Deleting all that crap was the best thing I ever did for my truck. Other than HID headlights.

 

[PFranzese]

Does anybody have dyno results before and after the DPF Deletes?

I would be really interested in seeing the results on paper.

 

[jelag]

As I understand it, from reading automotive news and other publications the Feds are starting to ask the states to enforce the 2010 emission threshold on new vehicles and with this comes additional testing... in our state you now have a threshold where this equipment needs to be in place... visually...

Our states new regulations that go into effect later this year, and become law later require all vehicles to be plugged into the ALDL connector and the testing computer will look at the engine and management computer in the vehicle and will require all the features to be functional and operational...

For us what this means is that you used to be able to knock the stuffing out of the CAT or other item but leave it in place and pass... Now it has to work...

For us, it's just simpler to leave the stuff on the trucks and comply. . I was around when the rage was to pull the CAT and replace it with a straight pipe on cars... and than later watched all those guys stretch to replace it with working equipment...

Of course each state is different, but with CA leading the way. . we'll all have to test and pass some day... . I'd hate to later have to go back and replace all those parts...

 

[HBarlow]

I've read some reports by owners who say they have removed the emissions crap and claim significant power, acceleration, and fuel mileage gains but I don't think anyone has reported actual dyno testing.

I could get away with removing the junk from my truck out here in a rural county in West Texas but what about when I want to hook up my fifth wheel and take a trip to another region of the country? Deleting smog junk from my truck would mean I couldn't dare enter the communist satellite countries of Kalifornia, OR, WA, IL, New England states, MD, etc. Entering some of those countries could subject me to roadside testing, impoundment of my truck, fines, towing fees to haul my truck to a dealer, and then exorbitant charges to replace the equipment.

No way, Jose. I'm not going to risk that.

 

[PFranzese]

I agree with Jim and Harvey, just not worth the time, money and risk to get caught and/or have to put it all back on.



I would love to see some real documanted results of the mileage and power increases. Not saying that people don't know there trucks well enough to know its running better but it seems to be a lot of talk with no proof. Someone has to have dyno results before and after.

 

[Jim W]

I've read some reports by owners who say they have removed the emissions crap and claim significant power, acceleration, and fuel mileage gains but I don't think anyone has reported actual dyno testing.



I could get away with removing the junk from my truck out here in a rural county in West Texas but what about when I want to hook up my fifth wheel and take a trip to another region of the country? Deleting smog junk from my truck would mean I couldn't dare enter the communist satellite countries of Kalifornia, OR, WA, IL, New England states, MD, etc. Entering some of those countries could subject me to roadside testing, impoundment of my truck, fines, towing fees to haul my truck to a dealer, and then exorbitant charges to replace the equipment.



No way, Jose. I'm not going to risk that.

Harvey,

Il, only test cars with gas engines and this is in the 6 county metropolitan area around Chicago and the surrounding counties of East St Louis IL. No road side testing at all, just testing sites that read the OBD II for cars newer then 96. Cars older then 96 they have the tail pipe test and lower emission limits.

So if Il was to institute testing for diesel truck and diesel cars this would be for model year specific to the build year. Such as the 08 Dodge would need to meet the emission codes for that year not the 2010 emission code. So the DPF and some other emission equipment on these trucks would not be required for the 08's.

So you would be safe in IL.

 

[HBarlow]

Jim,

Are you sure the tested vehicle would not be required to meet the EPA certification on the labels of that particular vehicle?

I never gave the issue any thought and don't know how that is enforced but I would have expected that since the Cummins engine labels on trucks state they meet 2010 standards my truck would be required to do so.

 

[MullenaxM]

The EPA certification are for the year that the vehicle was built. The emission labels on the trucks are for the year in which the vehicle is built and certified. The Cab/Chassis Trucks do not meet the 2010 emissions standards.



Mike

 

[JMetzger]

Just talked to my son yesterday & he lives in South Windsor, CT & a guy he knows got caught by the feds. Don't know much about it but he told my son that after all the cost it cost him almost half a years salery. Ain't worth it.

 

[HBarlow]

The EPA certification are for the year that the vehicle was built. The emission labels on the trucks are for the year in which the vehicle is built and certified. The Cab/Chassis Trucks do not meet the 2010 emissions standards.

Mike

Yeah, you're correct. I forgot that my C&C is only certified for 2007 specs. One of several advantages of a C&C over a pickup.

To clarify what you meant by certification for the year that the vehicle was built, do you mean an '08 pickup is only required to meet the 2008 emission standard which is the same standard as 2007? Don't the EPA labels on the engine in 2008 pickups state the truck meets 2010 standard even though they are not yet required to?

 

[jelag]

Harvey,

The trucks have to meet standards for the year they were built...

But in CA they are now forcing those heavy trucks and machinery to retro-fit them to meet much tighter standards... .

I remember as a kid in CA we were forced to remove the road draft tubes on the cars and install PCV to reduce what goes into the air... this was the first step...

Today that step is to reduce emissions on all trucks new and old. . which means equipment added..... this new standard, again in CA includes off road machinery. .

 

[HBarlow]

Okay, I understand what several of you are saying about meeting the requirement for the year of manufacture.

However, don't the laws also state something to the effect that tampering, alteration, or removal of any factory installed emissions equipment is unlawful?

My point is that even though a 2008 Dodge Ram is certified to meet 2010 EPA specs but built in 2008 which only has to meet the 2007 requirements wouldn't it still be a violation to remove or disable any of the OEM equipment?

 

[dlmetzger]

If a 2008 Ram 6. 7L diesel had the emissions equipment in place (unmodified) and was tested by the EPA, the emissions equipment on the truck could have degraded performance below the 2010 levels but meets the 2007 levels. The truck should pass the test.

 

[Jim W]

I am using my experience from the company that I used to work for before my retirement.

The engines that are built are for a model year specific, but we could build for another year in the future. We then could over build this engine for a certain size engine range, such as 6. 7L engine. This engine then could be used to off set engines that do not meet that model year EPA requirements. With out the engine manufacture paying any fines for not meeting the EPA requirements.

I believe this is why the 6. 7L engine was certified to meet the 2010 emissions to allow Cummins to sell engines that do not meet these requirements, in other size classes. But the vehicle manufactured for the model year such as 2008 will only need to meet the 2008 emissions, if he has a compliant engine. DPF's are not required to meet the 2008 emissions, just look at what the Chevy and Ford 2008 diesel have in them.

I believe a person could defend removing the DPF's on an 08 and ask why the Chevy and Ford do not have them, then why is Dodge required.

 

[MullenaxM]

If any of the emissions or exhaust after treatment parts were removed from either the pick-up or the cab/chassis trucks they would not meet the 2007 EPA requirments.



When Cummins designed the 6. 7 liter engine,Emissions,and Exhaust aftertreament system they Engineered it as a unit to meet the 2007 and 2010 EPA emissions requirements. The big push was to meet the 2007 requirement, But because of the way that the law was written ,if over half of the vehicles built met the 2010 EPA mandated NOx level of

0. 2g/hp-hr , The rest of the vehicles could be built with exhaust emissions with higher NOx levels. That is the reason for the difference in the Cab/Chassis Exhaust emissions system. All of the vehicles had to meet the 2007 EPA requirements of Particulate Matter of 0. 01-g/hp-hr or less. That is the reason for the DPF.

So for that reason,if your truck was built to meet the 2010 EPA Emissions standards then it would have to pass the emissions test of the 2010 EPA emissions, because of the laws that were enacted for the 2007 year built vehicle.



Mike

 

[MullenaxM]

I believe a person could defend removing the DPF's on an 08 and ask why the Chevy and Ford do not have them, then why is Dodge required.

Chevy and Ford both,as of 2007, have DPF's,EGR valves,and DOC (Diesel Oxidation Catalyst)



Mike

 

[HBarlow]

That's what I thought. Thanks, Mike, for providing "the rest of the story. "

As much as I'd love to see that emissions crap on my truck at the bottom of my burn pit out back, it ain't gonna happen. I'm not going to risk my truck, my bank account, or my freedom hoping the long enforcement arm of the environmental wackos in DC don't smog check my truck somewhere, sometime, when I least expect it.

 

[DSorrells]

A little side tracked... I admit that I do hurt for those of you living in places with higher air quality standards then me. Frankly the air quality in Oklahoma is affected more by the polution in Texas than from the polution generated in Ok. That is a fact not a Tx/Ok joke. I know that there are legal consiquences for removing and messing with that emissions equipment. I want to know what gains people have gotten by removing the DPF. Then I can make my own decision on if it is worth it or not to remove the DPF. Thanks again for your help.