Mopar 5003464AA Axle Seals & leaks

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Hello TDR Gang!

About a month ago I posted a topic, "CR Rear Axle Seal Installation" and have now completed this work (once again) on the rear axle last night. Everything came off without a hitch during the assembly, but today I'm already starting to see 'weeping' around the brake drums. I also feel a bit like weeping myself!

This is the second time I've done this job in the past four months.

I'm having trouble understanding how my expensive Amsoil is getting around the seals. The sealing surfaces look perfect, like the day they were machined. The seals pressed in straight & true after modifying the 'slinger' (stamped metal flange) for initial seal clearance. I followed J. Donnelly's (and other's) installation tips to the letter and still oil seeping out of the both hubs.

Some thoughts, maybe the knowledgeable TDR brother's can provide some guidance.

These seals are listed in the D/C parts computer to fit the First Gen. Dana 70's and they are also recommended in Issue 27 (page 14) of the TDR as the hot ticket for the 1994-1998. 5 Rams. When I assembled the brake drum assy's back onto the rear axle spindle there didn't seem to be as much 'seal lip drag/engagement' as w/ the OEM seals. Has the spindle diameter changed between model years (smaller for First Gen. )? I also need do some seal ID homework between old & new.

Also, I installed my new Mag-Hytec diff cover and added Amsoil to the 'modified oil level mark' on the dipstick provided. I managed to get 6 quarts (12 pints) into the rear end to reach this level. I know the OEM spec is 7 pints for the stock cover, I didn't anticpate having to add this much extra oil to compensate for the Mag-Hytec's increased volume. Does this sound like too much oil? It's right at the top mark on the dipstick.

I also need to assure that the vent tubes are not blocked. Maybe now is a great time to extend/relocate them to a more sensible place.

Thanks for any tips or thoughts! It seems that I have to do every modification at least twice to get it right! Is it just me or do others also have this affliction?

Ps: Congratulations! "Old school" on your new position as 'Moderator' in the well-lighted offices of the TRD!

1992 W250 5 spd. 3. 54 gears Banks "Stinger Plus" kit consisiting of 14cm2 wastegated housing, 3 1/2" exhaust/muffler, pyro/boost gage, K&N, 2 1/2" Skyjacker front suspension lift to clear 305/70R/16's Goodyear MT's (wearing alarmingly quick!)

 

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I would not have modified the slinger, I would have got the proper CR seal, the CR28746 seal is what I used. As for seepage, did you clean all the oil off the drum, in the crack where the two halves go together. Without having one or a picture in front of me to jog my memory, I want to say it is behind the flat area where the lug nuts are and where it attaches to the drum.
This where all of my oil has seeped out.

Rodney

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92 2500 Reg. Cab LE
Dark Spectrum Blue and Silver 4x4 Auto
214,000 plus miles
16cm2 housing, Isspro guages.

 

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Hey Rodney!

Thanks for the reply & seal P/N! I might be putting this number to good use if my leaks persist.

Yeah, I thought long & hard for a month before modifying the 'slinger' for this installation. That's what my previous posting was all about. The real bummer is that now I have a nicely trimmed slinger, $40. 00 in Mopar seals and still blowing Amsoil all over the inside of my aluminum wheels!

The real kicker is that according to the Dodge parts computer & at least 2 articles in the TDR, this IS the correct alternative axle seal for the Dana 70 & my application.

I'll look into your suggestion about seepage from behind the lug nut area. The thing is that after playing surgeon on the slinger w/ an end mill, I washed the drums w/ degreaser, soap & water and then quickly coated the races w/ a film of motor oil. I must say, they were competely clean & free of any metal shavings when installed.

I guess I'm just frustrated by the amout of time I've invested in trying to fix these leaks!

Still open for further advice & suggestions!
Keeno

 

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Keeno, certainly sounds like you've exhausted "the usual suspects". Now, I'm not the most experienced Rammer around but are you sure you have a D70 and not a D60? (Not sure if it even makes a difference on the seals) I've got a '91 W250 and to my knowledge they came with the D60 rear. Just a thought...

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Stock '91 sc W250, 5sp, 3. 54's, 235/85's,250k+.

 

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Hey Rodney!

I spent some time this weekend looking at my rear break drums. Your insight on leaking behind the lug nut flange might be the answer to all my problems! There is consisderable oil coming from the crack behind the lug nut studs. I didn't realize that these durms were two piece assemblies (silly misinformed me)!

Rodney, how did you fix your leaks in this area? Maybe my axle seals have been fine all along! Learning as I go, thanks!

Keeno

 

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The seal is what keeps the oil out of that area. When the seal leaks, oil runs down onto the metal flange, for the lack of the proper word for it, it follows the flange down to where the two parts come together and now you have the leak at that point. Fix the seal problem and it goes away. If you don't flush out this area real good, before putting it back together, it will still show some signs of a leak, but it is really just the oil not cleaned out. Once it is finally thrown out of the crack, while driving down the road, it will eventually not look so fresh. This flange is what keeps our brakes from getting contaminated, it just makes a mess on the drum and the tire.
I hope this was clear to you.

Rodney

 

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Hey Rodney!

Thanks once again for your reply! I'm getting closer to understanding the problem but I'm not quite all the way there.

Questions: Which flange are you refering to?

The machined flange that the lug nuts are mounted through or the 'Slinger' (as others have called it) on the inside of the drum near the seal mounting bore? Which flange keeps the oil off my brakes? Note: My brakes have been perfectly clean (no oil) everytime I have removed the drums.

My leak also doesn't seem to be getting a whole lot worse, maybe it is just residual water/oil from when I washed them to remove the metal shavings after modifying the 'slinger'.

Any other suggestions?

Keeno

 

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Lets call it the slinger, right by the seal. Its a heavy tin looking thing. It makes the seal harder to put in, because of its location. You will have a little bit of oil residue in the slinger that is hard to get out and so you will usually see a little leak for a short time. This keeps the oil out of the brakes. From reading post from people with the second gens, it sounds like they don't have one, I've drove a lot of the second gens, but never have worked on one.
Hope this helps, I couldn't find a picture of what I am talking about.

Rod

 

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I notice a couple of weeks ago that around both of the rear lug nuts and the drums there was some oil seepage. Just pulled one axle today and sure enough oil is getting by the rear seal.
I have read this post and a previous one that deals with this problem and I gather that this has been a pesky problem for some of you.

Looking for advice on getting the old seal out?

Can it be driven out by placing a small round piece of lumber on the bearing and driving it out?

I am assuming that the new seal can be driven in by using a big socket?

Which is the better part to use Mopar 5003464AA or the one that Rodney provided CR28746?

 

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I have 22,000 miles on my CR28746 seal, with no problems. I don't know about Mopar, but Napa has sold me their seals, they claim they are the same as the CR, this isn't true and their seal never lasted. I have never had to modify anything to get the proper seal to work, it falls right into place.

Rodney

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92 2500 Reg. Cab LE
Dark Spectrum Blue and Silver 4x4 Auto
Horton Fan Clutch, 221,000 plus miles
16cm2 housing, Isspro guages.

 

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My feeling is that the slinger was added to mask the ongoing problem of Dana's leaking axle seals. It does keep the oil off of the brake shoes though. My past truck (80 Bowtie) had a Dana 60 without slingers in the drum and would lose a set of brake shoes when it the seal started weeping. I have changed several seals on my 93 W250's Dana 70 with 112,000 miles. Probably just coincidence but the right side seems less reliable than the left. Tried both the NAPA and CR seals without much difference. It almost seems hit or miss with seal quality and longevity??

If anyone has found a better seal let us know. Thanks for the info on the "new" seal that requires modifying our brake shoe saving slinger.

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93 W250 4X4

 

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Installed 2 CR 28746 axle seals today - I will see how long these will last, the originals lasted 75,300 km.

Rodney, you are right with the CR 28746 no modification is necessary to the oil slinger.

Joe, thanks for the heads-up regarding how long it may take to get oil to the seals.

It sure makes it a lot simpler when you are shopping and you have the right part number.

I make a point of reading as many of the postings as possible - you never know when you will need some help - what a great resource and wealth of information.

Thanks,
Al

 

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Hey Al!

Congratulations on your successful axle seal installation!

I have found that after many months of fighting axle seal leaks that what I had was actually a cracked brake drum. My drum was cracked behind the wheel stud mounting flange of the drum and this was where the oil was coming from & not the seal. This is the area that 'Rodney' had suggested checking for cracks due to his past experiences. I was somewhat frustrated after chasing what I thought was axle seal problems all along to find it was a cracked drum instead.

The Mopar seal Number was recommended in a past issue of the TDR as mention in my previous post. It was mentioned for the Second Generation trucks which do not have the "Slinger" attached to the back of the drums as leak insurance. The new drum that was purchased & installed also does not have the "Slinger" attached. I guess DC figured that they had the axle seal problems licked by '94!

Good luck with the CR's! I now have one Mopar seal & one CR seal in my Dana 70, I'll let you know if one leaks!

Keeno

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1992 W250 5spd. 3. 54 gears, LSD, JRE enhanced VE Injector Pump, BD High Output Injectors, Banks "Stinger Plus" consisting of a 14cm2 wastegated housing, 3 1/2" JRE modified exhaust/muffler, pyro/boost gages, K&N, Skyjacker 2 1/2" front suspension lift to clear 305/70R/16 Goodyear MT's, Mag-Hytec, Amsoil

 

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My son has a 92 W250. 130K miles. It was my old truck and he wanted it . Big mistake. I still have the problems but he pays for the repairs.
It has had three sets of rear seals and now one is leaking again. Installed "speedy sleeves" on the last set as the sealing surface was slightly groved. That helped alot for length of service but was not a permanent solution. A mechanic told me that the seals are damaged when putting the hub back on if you are not extremely careful in keeping the whole assembly centered while doing it.
Hope this is helpful.

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98 24v,3500,4x4,quadcab,5 spd,3. 54,all options available when ordered,oem full length diamond plate running boards, eyebrows & hood dam, bed edges,bedhooks plus Rhinohide liner, Pacbrake, britebox,"deepdish"mats, topper shell, Sandstone & camel leather. Lowered rear end 4" to set ruck level.
brush guard. Digital boost/egt gauges coming for fathers day present from two sons, both with Dodge/Cummins.

 

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Jack in Alaska.
That is a good point. I made a point of that when I installed the new seals.

 

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I have a speedy sleeve on my right rear, it was damaged some years ago when my truck was stolen and they were 4 wheeling in a swampy area, which damaged seals, bearings,etc.
When I put the sleeve on, I took a dremel tool and cut off the extra sleeve, then I filed down the edge, making it smooth, I use emery cloth to dress it up. It almost looks like there isn't one there, when I get through. This way I don't have to worry about the seal getting damage.

Rodney