More on the new GM Duramax...

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Well here's some more info I got on the new 6. 6L GM (Isuzu) Duramax diesel. I also got this off of the F-D site, under the General Diesel topic area. There's actually some good info there, check it out!!! #ad


Engine Description: 90-degree V-8
Displacement: 6. 6L/403ci
Bore and Stroke: 103 mm x 99 mm
Compression Ratio: 17. 5:1
Dry Weight, less clutch: 835 lb
SAE Net Horsepower: 300 @ 3,100 rpm
SAE Net Torque: 520 @ 1,800 rpm
Boost Pressure: 18 psi @ 1,800 rpm

Cylinder Block Material: Induction hardened Gray Iron
Crankcase Material: Aluminum
Cylinder Head Material: Aluminum w/ 6 bolts per cylinder
Valve Arrangement: 4-valves per cylinder
Valve timing: Gear driven timing set, single cam
Fuel Injection: High Pressure Common Rail Direct Unit Injection
Oil Capacity: 9. 8L/10. 3 qt w/filter
Oil Cooler: Internal, Unitized plate construction

The 300 HP rating is a little scary, looks like Cummins and Navistar are going to have to make a few more tweaks or something. I guess GM is pissed off after being out of the diesel race for a so long. Or wait, were they ever in it to begin with? Either way, this is going to put pressure on both Ford and Dodge. It's going to be intersting to see what comes along these next few years.



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Evan A. Beck
98. 5 2500, 4x2, RC, ISB, A/T, Forest Green/Driftwood, 38,000 miles
4" Exhaust, Jacobs E-Brake, K&N Filter, Auto-Meter Ultra Lite boost & pyro, turbo silencer ring removed, plus many other cosmetic modifications

 

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Evan,

Welcome back!

Hmmm... Been thinking what they are going to do for an automatic transmission. Could it be the new Allison 1000 Series?? Could it be the reason the Allison isn't going to be in a Dodge??

I don't think the transmission they have now would stand up to a 300HP Diesel or the 520 Lb/Ft of torque. It'll be very interesting watching the "diesel horsepower race".

Anybody read about the Cummins ISB 260HP/Allison 1000 Series transmission combination announced on the Cummins Engine Homepage, In the News Section? Freightliner Custom Chassis Corp is already advertising this combination for motorhomes. Are the Dodge Boys in Detroit watching?? What a combination for us "one leg" transmission users!! Oh well, just dreamed for a moment!!

Bill

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97,3500,CC,4x2, Auto, 4. 10LSD, All Options incl Leather, PacBrake, 3 Pos Lockup Switch, PrimeLoc, Jardine 4" Cat-Back Exhaust, 45 Gal. RPM Aux Fuel Tank, Mag-Hytec Covers, Painless Wiring Kit, Reese 20K Hitch, 80% Towing 12,000+LB 5th Wheel

 

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You gotta love competition. Now, if the prices would only go down.

John

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1999 Dodge Ram 3500 Quad Cab 5 spd, 4:10 LSD rear, Mag-Hytec diff. cover, Speedliner spray in bed-liner, Smittybuilt step rails.
Rammin' and Runnin' the roads

 

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I have read in GM literature that the current 4L80E transmission (which is basically a Turbo 400 with overdrive) can handle on the order of 700 ft-lbf of torque, so perhaps if they do go with the Allison unit, it;s just a "belt and suspenders" type of solution.

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'99 3500 QC,24V,SLT,white,4x2,Auto trans. ,4. 10 posi,Mag-Hytec rear cover and trans. pan, Rancho step rails, Mopar bedliner

 

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I have read in GM literature that the current 4L80E transmission (which is basically a Turbo 400 with overdrive) can handle on the order of 700 ft-lb of torque, so perhaps if they do go with the Allison unit, it's just a "belt and suspenders" type of solution.

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'99 3500 QC,24V,SLT,white,4x2,Auto trans. ,4. 10 posi,Mag-Hytec rear cover and trans. pan, Rancho step rails, Mopar bedliner

 

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I don't think it would be too much of a challenge for Cummins to turn up the ISB to 300 horsepower. The biggest issue is maintaining a warrantable drivetrain on the Ram trucks! Remember in RV applications you can get the ISB with 275hp/660torque, and torquewise the Duramax falls short with a 520 ft. lb. rating. With what we have in our trucks now, the ISBs are only 60 ft/lbs away from the Duramax. With the RV spec ISB, head-to-head the Cummins should easily outpull the Duramax!

(And one last comment--I'd be a little nervous with an diesel under the hood that's got a lot of aluminum in it!!)

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Future Rammer coming with Intense Blue 2000 QC 4x4 SWB, 6-spd, 3. 54 LSD, Leather & Loaded; adding RV Injectors, 4" Jannetty exhaust, Scotty/K&N Cone intake, 295/75/16 BFG A/Ts on M/T Classic 16x8s, Northwest Custom flaps

 

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Vaughn,

10-4 on the aluminum in that engine!! Sounds like more gasoline engine technology in a diesel!!

Things like cast iron and forged steel are words that spell durability!!!

Anybody see a Cummins ISB5. 9 with aluminum heads??? Hmmm... .

Bill

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97,3500,CC,4x2, Auto, 4. 10LSD, All Options incl Leather, PacBrake, 3 Pos Lockup Switch, PrimeLoc, Jardine 4" Cat-Back Exhaust, 45 Gal. RPM Aux Fuel Tank, Mag-Hytec Covers, Painless Wiring Kit, Reese 20K Hitch, 80% Towing 12,000+LB 5th Wheel

 

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I also find it odd that their torque rating is so low compared w/ their HP rating. What's the use? Anyone have thoughts on the why this would be attractive (especially if compared to the ISB) to a consumer?

Craig

 

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If I am not mistaken, aluminum heads absorb heat better. This is not good for efficiency. So thier mileage may be found wanting?? No one may care with 300HP on tap.

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P. Campbell 1998. 5 ISB 2500 auto green/driftwood

 

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Well, lets see, if you start out with a Cummins at 160 HP, and with a few "goodies" installed it goes up to about 275 HP, where will the 300 HP Dynamax end up when the Chevy guys get through playing with it? 500+ HP?..... DDG

 

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There is big differences in the ISB block and the B-series block. We/they/CUMMINS already have a marine ISB at 350 hp. and they are working on 400 hp. the 270/660 and easily be changed to a 300/600. I just find strange that they would develope a V-8, when they are so hard to meet emissions. on a v-8 it takes more rpm's to get torque and horsepower; and unlike gas , diesel takes longer to burn---so the faster you turn ,the emmissions you can't control. maybe this is a one or two year wonder to get them in the market--and then redesign. kind of like Ford with the 7. 3 powerstroke after 2001.

 

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Hmmm, speaking of emissions--my neighbor rebuilds injecton system components and often hears diesel-related news through the grapevine at work before the rest of the world does. Anyway he says they are having some major challenges emmisions-wise with the Duramax diesel and some proverbial caca is hitting the proverbial fan. Introduction may be delayed 'til 2002. Don't know if there is truth to this rumor but it wouldn't be too surprisiing nontheless.

 

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I heard the same, but if they can't meet todays standard with a cat, how do they expect to meet 2002. The PSD can't pass the 2002 with the cat now---that's why it's dead after 2001 in the 7. 3 size mode

 

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CMECHANIC, Since the ISB is cat-less now, do you think it is considerably cleaner than the PSD and soon-to-be Duramax? Have you heard any specifics as to current emission levels of the ISB and how close it may be to 2002 levels currently? Sounds like it's a pretty clean burner compared to the competition. Is it your opinion the inline 6 has inherent advantages over V8 engines in diesel applications? I've always liked the way 6-cylinders sound (big rig!) plus they have 7 main bearings instead of 5. Also I've heard inline sixes tend to have better balance characteristics since the reciprocating assembly travels along one plane versus 2 planes 90 deg. apart on a V8.

 

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Oh, it's much cleaner than the powerstroke. There is a slight posibility that it may not need a cat in 49 states for the year 2002-2005. California is still up in the air (no pun ). but time will tell, they could even tighten the levels more. Talking to mechanics the PSD is the closest thing to a decent V-8 diesel made. But, most diesel engine manufactures have gone away from V-8's. Many reasons why a inline 6 is better. you can fit a larger crank and rod size because the block is not narrow. less moving parts. Larger crank journals, you need to turn a v-8 faster for the same torque/hp. more internal friction. weaker block---hard to add webs and skirts to block. as for balance----they are close, they have a different balance/ride.

 

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sorry late, and fading fast

 

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My concern with the new GM diesel will be its reliability. Let's face it; the early 6. 5TD's and 6. 2's weren't exactly stellar in their durability. I had an '85 GM dually that chunked through 2 6. 2L diesels within 100K miles, before I abandoned the diesels and put in a 454. Another friend had the same problem, but put in a CAT TD. Then there's the 6. 5L TD; I know of at least 2 people with late model 6. 5 Suburban's, that have had numerous fuel injection problems, and one blew a head gasket.

As for the transmission, the 4L80-E is a pile of junk. The reliability has been its downfall as well; I know numerous owners of late model GM trucks that have blown countless 4L80-E's; the Chevy dealer in Minden, NV, had about 40 of these failed trannies sitting on crates, waiting to be shipped back to GM!! The Turbo 400 is a MUCH better transmission IMHO.

It would seem to me, that until GM get's its act together and starts using quality components, that are better engineered, their trucks just aren't going to have the reliability of Ford and Dodge. I've owned several GM trucks, and every one of them has failed me, usually out in the middle of nowhere. If I had neglected the maintenance, I could understand this, but these trucks always got everything they needed! I NEVER had these kinds of problem with the Ford's I've owned, nor the Dodge(knock on wood ;-).

Just my 2 pennies.

Regards,
-Mark Nelson

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Incline Village, Nevada

'99 3500 QC 4x4 ISB 5-spd, 3. 55, MCM Legacy shell, Tekonsha Sentinel brake controller

 

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I am going to lock this and move it to the general diesel forum -- that's what it's there for #ad


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Rob Spading
TDR Webmaster

1996 Dodge 3500 CC, Cummins, 4X4, Loaded SLT, Mag-hytec diff and trans covers, Rickson 19. 5s with Cooper C140s, Westach pyro-boost-trans temp, etc. , etc.

 

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See http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/gmheavy2.html

 

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Let's not forget we are talking about an isuzu motor here I don't care how much power it puts out I would not have a japanese engine in my truck. I feel very strongly about buying American. And I don't like the globalization that's being shoved down our throats. Sorry but that's how I feel.

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97 2500 4x4 NV4500 NV241HD 4. 10's posi CC every heavy duty option available,Reese 15k 5th wheel,turbo silencer removed