Motor oil?

[CDenton]

I just bought a new 2010 what motor oil are you guys running in yours? In my 98. 5 I ran shell rotella is that ok or should I run something else.

Thanks

 

[Grumpy John 4x4]

Amsoil Synthetics only way to go!

 

[AHarris]

I stick with the Valvoline oil with the Cummins logo on it that the dealer puts on at oil changes. I've heard from more than one person that you should get 30K or so on your CTD before switching to synthetics to ensure proper break in. The oil change reminder will ask you to change your oil on the newer trucks usually before the recommended interval of 7,500 miles anyway (especially for daily drivers like me), so what's the point of spending the extra bucks for synthetics? There's people with a half million miles on their Cummins who used Rotella or Valvoline Cummins spec oil. Make sure it's the latest spec low ash oil.

Some may disagree and I'm no oil expert, but I'm not convinced, given the oil change algorithm of the Cummins engine and what I've read from other TDR members overall that it's worth the extra money.

 

[Mikey-KE7LBB]

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/magazines/Issue_057.phtml

I think that this will clear up any questions regarding oil. Lots of fighting on this forum and all of the others telling people that the expensive stuff is best, but it's what is actually in it that counts!! There is also the never ending filter war on every forum... Almost all will agree that you should avoid Fram.

Bypass systems of ANY kind are beneficial and it depends on how much you want to spend.

All of these things need to be of concern IF you plan to make this the last truck you ever buy. If you trade it in for a new one every year, the extra money you save by going with the bare minimum could get you into your next truck a lot cheaper!

BTW. . All of the oils will get you past the 100k mark without issue.

 

[Hoefler]

Rotella syntheitic in the blue jug. Every 7,500 miles.

 

[JohnBoy5]

i would like to see an issue that has an update on the oil test. i was very disappointed to see shell rotela triple rated so low. i will be changing to the Valvoline premium blue 15-40. one thing i am unclear of about this article, are the rating including price as a factor or just chemical test? If they include price i would like to see something with just chemical test. Correct me if i am wrong, but the way i read this is the Valvoline premium blue 15-40 is the best from a chemical stand point?

 

[Mikey-KE7LBB]

Correct me if i am wrong, but the way i read this is the Valvoline premium blue 15-40 is the best from a chemical stand point?

Not knocking Valvoline at all, but the newer stuff is the same as all of the rest.

ALL of the CJ-4 oils rate low because they lack the ability for soot to "clump" into particles large enough to get filtered out effectively and from my understanding, this also affects the lubrication properties of the oil.

Price isn't a factor for me. All I looked at were the overall ratings for the oils that were submitted for testing and seen that even the best CJ-4 rated lower than the worst CI-4! I would use the Wal-Mart CI-4 stuff before the Amsoil CJ-4 or Chevron Delo400 LE based on what I read.

I have deleted all of the emissions crap and the CI-4 is the only way to go in my situation.

After reading this, I will not buy any oil if it says CJ-4 anywhere on the bottle! The problem is that the old stuff is getting harder to find and eventually will disappear due to everyone changing to meet the standards. I will continue to buy it as long as I can (currently CAT DEO 15w-40 CI-4+) and will switch to whatever brand is still clinging on to the good stuff!! Will even go as far as buying all the remaining stock of OnaMax oil from my local Cummins shop which is Valvoline Premium Blue CI-4+ in a different bottle.

I hope to make this the last truck I will ever buy and that is the only reason for going to what most people consider to be extreme or anal about this kind of thing :-laf

However... IF you have a DPF, you need to run CJ-4 oil to avoid problems.

 

[JohnBoy5]

ok a few more questions DPF is what? I am not at all worried about the price but i do what the BEST oil for my truck because i plan to keep it... the way i was reading it the Valvoline premium blue 15-40 was the best route... From what i understand you are saying it may not be because of lubrication properties and the ability to reduce soot clumping? In your opinion what is the best oil with out considering cost... Is the Valvoline 5-40 Synthetics better? I have also been thinking about the amsoil for my truck but after looking at the chart i am not sure its the best thing. i admit i am probably misunderstand the chart now... . (i am not starting a war for those that might think i am just asking questions to educate myself, i know this is a touchy subject for some)

edit. the Valvoline premium blue 15-40 is a CI-4 according to the chart and if i understand thats the stuff you like correct? but he amsoil is a CJ-4 witch is bad... Am i understanding the right? sorry i feel stupid but i want to get a good understanding of this stuff...

o i know this is in the thread for the newer trucks and i assume that you noticed my truck is an 01. so i guess i am trying to get the best for that.

edit edit. lol i thought i was done with the article but there is another full page lol. i will continue reading. sorry about that guys.

 

[Mikey-KE7LBB]

DPF stands for Diesel Particulate Filter and you are lucky not to have one.

All of the CJ-4 rated oils came as a result of the emissions requirements. The companies that make and sell the oil went with this new standard for all to avoid confusion and to cut cost to those needing both types. Kind of like the mentality that if someone craps themselves, then we all need to wear diapers.

You can get the CI-4+ Amsoil still for a price and also Mobil still has some for marine use. Also CAT DEO is still available and is what I use just because I can still get it.

Look at the newest rating on the bottle and it will tell you what type it is and if it says CJ-4, it is for the new DPF equipped vehicles... AND is also on the 'HO_HUM' ie... "least favorite" oils named in the article.

Valvoline is what Cummins recommends and is cheap, but the new stuff is not as good as it once was.

The CJ-4 will get you well past the 100k mark and may never be an issue, but there is always the doubts that still make this something to consider.

 

[TulsaOkie]

I use Rotella in mine and have from the start, 334k is of yesterday. The proof is in the Puddin... . Amsoil in diff's & transmission.....

 

[CDenton]

Sorry for all the contraversy but I just bought this thing. My old 98 I new what to do. This DAM thing has got me lost as for as talking to the dealer I MIGHT as well ask a 3rd grader.

THANKS FOR THE HELP.

 

[JohnBoy5]

Sorry for all the contraversy but I just bought this thing. My old 98 I new what to do. This DAM thing has got me lost as for as talking to the dealer I MIGHT as well ask a 3rd grader.

THANKS FOR THE HELP.

I dont think you have anything to be sorry about. i think you did the right thing by asking how ever all of this can be a little much sometimes. look at it like this, the unasked question is the stupid one. you did the right thing asked the question you had!

 

[RPlamondon]

Two most important issues with an internal combustion engine are lubrication and filtration. After break in I use Amsoil synthetic with their filter.

 

[Diesel Gunner]

Mikey,



If soot clumps together it is a big enough problem. There is a thing called soot polishing and it is not a good thing. When you have cylinder bores that are polished to a mirror finish and have no cross hatch left in them it is caused by soot. Mirror finishes will not hold oil to cool and lubricate and wear is accelerated.



With that said, soot dispersancy is a very desirable characteristic and the filter will remove soot to its ability. By pass systems are better. The CJ-4 specification was brought to us by our beloved EPA. Things are only going to get even more stringent and CJ-4 will sunset and the next monkey will be dropped on all of our backs. It was supposed to be here this year and has been delayed. CJ-4 is not something to be demonized. In all performance characteristics it out performs CI-4. Put whatever you feel best about in your crankcase and drive it like you stole it.



Quite honestly, unless you are using some of the really unscrupulous and dirty low down crap oils that some blenders put out for the guy who believes all oil is oil, I doubt that you will ever see an oil related failure. Most major oil manufacturers are just that good. By the way, who makes the Cat Oil? You know that it ain't Cat, right? (Answer: Lowest Bidder)



Just my $0. 02.

 

[mc130fox]

By the way, who makes the Cat Oil? You know that it ain't Cat, right? (Answer: Lowest Bidder)

Mobil. Mobil also makes GM branded bulk oil.



I worked for a Mobil distributer.

 

[Mikey-KE7LBB]

CJ-4 is not something to be demonized. In all performance characteristics it out performs CI-4. Put whatever you feel best about in your crankcase and drive it like you stole it.

Your truck is a 01. 5 and when it came from the assembly plant to the dealer's lot it had a CI-4 or CI-4+ oil in the crankcase! All the way up to about mid 2008 when it started drying up on store shelves.



I think they went this route to avoid problems and backlash from people who put in the WRONG type oil in a new vehicle and try to blame everyone except for themselves and also to cut costs from supplying customers with two different spec oils.



It took decades of testing and research for all of the oil makers and the API to come to the conclusion that oil needs to meet the CI-4 and CI-4+ standard. The CJ-4 started hitting the shelf in 07 and was labeled low emission. It was designed specifically for engines that use EGR and have particulate filters. It's purpose is to keep the soot suspended throughout the oil to make the emissions equipment on newer vehicles last longer... As a result, the additive that provides the BEST lubrication properties was reduced and now soot stays in particles so small that even bypass systems can't filter it out and it zips right through a full flow filter. Soot kills or significantly reduces engine life because it is abrasive!



FACT is that oil moved many steps ahead and unfortunately, it took several steps backward with the new standard they had to meet. #@$%!



I personally would recommend using CI-4 oil for longevity in an older truck (or a newer truck that has had the DPF deleted) if you can still find it.



There are millions and millions of miles on the new stuff that is chemically not as good as the older oils and I'm not saying that you shouldn't use it... I personally will be using the CI-4 oil as long as I can find it. After that I will switch to any of the synthetic brands that still stock the older CI-4 or CI-4+!



It's kind of like comparing a good pair of work boots to a pair of sneakers... Both will protect your feet and get you where you're going, but one just does it better!

 

[Diesel Gunner]

Prior to CI-4 there were CH, CG, and CF-4 and even CF . Am I to understrand that they were also superior to CJ or is CI the second coming?



CI-4+ is still available and will be for a while. CJ-4 was driven by EPA regulation. There is even a newer API spec coming soon. In fact, it should have been here this year.



I don't have a DPF, but I live in Kommifornia and we not only have the EPA to deal with but also CARB and removing emission control systems is a greater crime than molesting children. Don't worry though. It is coming to your state soon.



Have a great day, Mikey.

 

[Mikey-KE7LBB]

I didn't want to start a fight!

I just merely stated that oils HAD been improving over the years with time and research that lead up to the PRE-EMISSIONS CI-4+ standard. It was and still is the best thing since sliced bread. And yes the CF oils are good quality and the best for the time until something better came along... CI-4!



With new emissions laws that went into effect since then, oil quality took a step backwards as an action item to meet the new standard.



I feel your pain with living in a state that puts such a squeeze on the people cause I know it's coming for all of us unfortunately.



I encourage you to read the article I linked to in post #4 again (without bias) and learn from someone who does this for a living. And look closely at what I stated toward the end of that post and again at the end of post #7



I personally trust that my engine will be protected by oil that meets the standard that was a result of decades of research and not one that was forced down my throat to be compliant with something I didn't want.

 

[JohnBoy5]

Do we what the soot to clump or not clump?

 

[Diesel Gunner]

I respectfully disagree that oil was being improved by API specifications and manufacturers up to CJ-4 and then took a step backwards. The environment that the oil must perform in has changed dramatically in just the past few years. With the increase in EGR, retarded timing, multiple injection events (both for increased power and regeneration cycles), and other changes the heat load on the entire engine and related systems has been increased dramatically. This creates a much less hospitable environment for the oil and increases the performance demand in multiple ways on it. This is the reason for the new lubricants and coolants, also.



Assuming that you are correct, this would mean that API and the oil manufacturers conspired to produce a product that does not perform as well and will cost the consumer. Not only in the cost of the product, since CJ-4 tends to be more expensive that CI-4+, but in downstream costs of operation, increased oil consumption, increased repair cost, and shortened engine life. How many manufacturers bring a premium product to market that is inferior to their predecessor product? What would that benefit? They will surely be the loser in the end when the consumer, from single pickup truck owner to the mega fleet owner, finds this out.



I have read the articles and respect John Martin's analysis. I hear what you are saying and also respect your opinion. However, I disagree. There have been 10's of thousands of hours in test cells and millions of miles of over the road testing and CJ-4 out performs CI-4+ in the engines that spec CJ-4. With that said, when you remove or modify your emission system then you have become your own warranty and repair station. The money that you save on the oil you will be able to apply to the repair of your engine.



Just to be clear here. For those of you who have not removed any of the downstream emission control equipment on your trucks, there is no benefit to using CI-4+ engine oil. On the contrary, use of this API spec will cause premature plugging of elements and eventual damage. This will not happen immediately upon installation of the oil but will happen over time.



Thanks, Mikey, for your input. In no way am I attempting to argue, just to bring light to the subject



Paul