Moving common rail engine into 1991 first generation Dodge Diesel pickup

[raxley]

Hi
I used to be here under another name and I have a 2005 RC 2 wheel drive. About 1-1/2 years ago I wrecked that vehicle w/o insurance, and I recently came into some money and bought another pickup, this time a 1991 first generation truck. The PO has put a aftermarket inter cooler on it, and I suppose it runs pretty good for an older pickup. It's got 333,000 miles. The previous owner had a professional 'turn up' the stock injection pump and I think it has a shift kit and a heavy duty torque converter.
I got a friend who is a good diesel mechanic and we were talking about putting my common rail engine into this first generation truck. I know it's not going to be easy, and he anticipates a lot of time spent on the wiring. I will need another throttle position sensor, a vacuum pump and another part that I can't immediately recall. I have the wrecked pickup in it's entirety.
I have to have a/c (think that's what the vacuum pump is for in older pickups) and positraction or a locker.
He mentioned that my third generation twin turbo (stock over s400) won't fit in my 1991 (or maybe I misheard him) If it doesn't fit, why?
My transmission has a gorend t/c, shift kit, billet input, improved (can't remember if laminated or what) flex plate, and larger cooling pan for trans fluid.
I had the 3rd generation for about 3 years, it's now got about 75,000 and I bought it around 15,000 miles.
I'm looking for other things to think about making work before I get 'hip deep' in this project. I have limited mechanical skills so my friend will be doing all the work.
Are there others who have done this, and do you know their names (hopefully on this site)?
Thanks in advance.

 

[finallycummins]

Raxley-

I was at the Denver Jeep & Truck Fest today, and happened to find out from the painless performance rep that they have a wiring harness dedicated to putting a HPCR 5. 9 cummins into any rig. I don't know what the cost is, but may be worth looking into to save time.

 

[cerberusiam]

Man, if you have the donor truck that is a great start. Have been several of them done, just depends on how far you wanted to take it and how much of the 3rd gen stuff to move over.

Instead of a vacuum pump I would move the power steering\brake from the 05 over and get an aftermarket vacuum pump for the controls. Lot less hassle.

Sounds like a lot of work but it would be prety cool.

 

[mfurrh55]

I have a vacuum pump for sale on this website,Will sell or trade for a good boost gauge , has to be 60 psi gauge, Monte

 

[Cissco]

My 04 had a electric vacuum pump under the hood on the wheel well.

 

[RSchwarzli]

Wow. Sounds like a great project. And yes it can be done. And yes wiring is the big one. But if painless now has a kit... ...

 

[Nigel]

Wow. Sounds like a great project. And yes it can be done. And yes wiring is the big one. But if painless now has a kit... ...

Don't get anymore ideas.

Nigel

 

[raxley]

Don't get anymore ideas.

Nigel

I checked Painless, and they have a part #60250, http://painlessperformance.shptron....-engine-harness-5-9l-manual-transmission-only but it's only for a manual transmission swap. They also get $1300 for it. My friend, when we were talking in a more preliminary way about the sway (before I actually bought the 1991 truck) said that he'd have to modify the harness and mentioned that the Painless kit probably wouldn't be much help.
He also said the wiring for the swap would be the big thing.
Thanks for the replies, and the info-I'm looking for as much info as possible before starting the project.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

In TDR Issue 45, p. 133, is reported that Mike Smith of (Northern?) California brought his blue 1990 Ram with 2003 HPCR Cummins to May Madness 2004. I don't have current contact information for him.

 

[raxley]

Thanks Joesph Donnelly, I'll look up that TDR and see if I can get in touch with him.

 

[Shadrach]

The twins might need more clearance, if so just do a body lift on it. I've seen a 2WD 1st gen with an Eaton 10 speed in it and he had to do a body lift for clearance on the trans adapter ( bell housing ). I've also seen a 3rd gen with a P pumped 12 valve in it. He had to do a body lift on it to clear the twins. David

 

[HHhuntitall]

They were designed to run from the factory ECM. Run a hot wire and a ground to it and it will run. Throttle position sensor is the human interface. The other sensors are required for the ECM to run. Using the auto is a tricky part. IIRC, on the 5. 9, the transmission is controlled through the ECM, so you may can make that work with the factory wireloom. I do believe the TIPM and PCM will have to go in to make it all work properly... .....

 

[cerberusiam]

The TIPM and trans control is platform specific, those are not needed. A 2005 has doesn't have a TIPM anyway but the PDC and FCM function as a TIPM and are plafrom control not engine. Basically you need power and ground to the ECU and the engine will fire and idle sitting on the floor. The trick is getting the Dodge platform crap off the ECU and back to Cummins program only for engine management. You can even dump the data bus if the ECU is flashed correctly. The engine needs APPS signal, cam and crank signal, and MAP\AIT signal to run. Everything else is add ons for TQ management and platform interface.

At that point you have to figure out how to control the AC because that gets wiped out in an ECM reload. Might loose the charging featurs also but not positive. You have no gauges and tach at that point so Ameter, oil pressure, and coolant readings will need to be tagged in thru other types of gauges. I is possible to move the data bus and cluster controller and cluster into a secondary vehicle but you are then married to a Dodge specific ECU program. Get sot be a toss up what you want to deal with there.

Gettng the engine in and running is simple, getting it to work seamlessly with the plaform is a lot more difficult. I am planning on this for my 93 with the addition of an Ally 6 speed. The wife is not impressed with the number I came up with to do it.

 

[HHhuntitall]

I knew the TIPM came along there closely to the end of '05 year model (is '06 model year the definite cut-off date?)... . My thoughts on using the FCM and PCM was to use what he had there with him, keeping key features such as AC, Alternator, and instrumentation. Cummins Southern Plains won't even work on the Dodge '03+, if I was told correctly. I suppose you could keep your factory charge controller and PCM to run the AC and alternator on your '91, running the engine on it's own... ...

Another option may be to find a Medium or Industrial application ECM that is designed to run with minimal inputs. Most of the industiral applications I've seen run single wire alternators, and independently wired AC systems. I'd wager you could sell the parts off yours and still come out ahead..... Just a thought.

 

[cerberusiam]

The 06's were the start of the TIPM, 05's still had the 2 pieces.

Ther eis no PCM on an 05, all the functions are integrated into the ECU. The peripherals communicate on the data bus but are not needed for engine operation. With the right ECU program that does only engine operation all that headache goes away. The alternator and AC are the 2 things that can be lost doing it that way. The alternator can be fixed with an external controller. Probbaly the AC also but not positive on how to do that.

Transmisison controls are a problem if a 47RH is going to be used though. A 727 doesn't need anything but a RH will need OD and lockup controls.