Navistar & Ford Settle Diesel Dispute

[jwgary]

I just got this update from Diesel Progress.
Diesel Progress Online | Industry News Detail
It looks like the PowerStroke is done unless the agreement says that Ford can still build the engine themselves.

 

[DCreed]

I just got this update from Diesel Progress.
Diesel Progress Online | Industry News Detail
It looks like the PowerStroke is done unless the agreement says that Ford can still build the engine themselves.

It is vague, but seems to say that ford will use navistar engines in its larger 650+ size trucks and ford will keep the PS in its smaller pick-ups but doesnt know which plant will produce them.

Dan- I really hope ford NEVER buys Dodge out! I had fords for many years and NOW I have a truck I love. I also had a crew/long chevy dually and dont know why Dodge cant seem to make one esp. with buyers not only asking for but paying extra for other companies to convert their trucks straight from the dealer! No rocket science needed there!

 

[peobryant]

Makes you wonder why they went through all the trouble, and money developing the 6. 4. Anyone know how those engines run? Sre they plagued with problems like the early 6. 0 seemed to be?

 

[Grizzly]

Dan, I'm talking about new Fords, like the 08 Super Duty. My brother-in-law has one and the engine bay is much smaller then older Ford trucks. Your first post was talking about putting a Cummins on a new (09) F350 crew cab with an 8' bed. Your reference conversion kit is for older F series Ford. On the new Super Duty, the V8 PS engine is partially buried under the fire wall. That's the reason the cab has to be removed to do any major work on the new Super Duty's.

 

[DCreed]

It may fit but you'll have to pull the body off to get at anything!

 

[JimB1]

What's wrong with the Dodge Quad Cab. I love my 05 and have no need for the cab to be any bigger. I'm a tall man and I fit in the back seat with the greatest of ease.

There isn't enough room for water polo. :-laf

 

[Grizzly]

There isn't enough room for water polo. :-laf

I rode in the back of mine for very long distance switching off with two other drivers from Albuquerque to Portland, Oregon and back with no complaints from me or the other two drivers. Granted it's not as big as a Furd Super Duty, but as far as I'm concerned, who wants a Furd.

 

[JimB1]

Needing to haul 6 big guys and all their equipment 200+ miles is pretty thin slice of the market tho' no doubt that requirement does exist.



For the remaining 99%, Ram Quad Cab is roomier and more accessible than any new production sedan/station wagon I can think of.



Passenger Van is only production vehicle with equal or more rear seat room.



Style, roomy rear seating, realiable power to spare= Ram Quad Cab Cummins.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Don't take it out on me write Dodge and complain to them why they can't make a real truck

Not to be picky - but the above sorta depends upon whether or not a guys definition of a "real truck" revolves around an old Caddy, Buick or OLDS 4-door sedan with an 8 foot bed where the trunk usually went.



But that definition is a bit outside the wants and needs of most folks it seems.



Thru the years, I've owned a '51 Chevy 1/2 ton, '48 Ford 1/2 ton, '67 Ford 3/4 ton, '63 GMC 3/4 ton. '91 Dodge 3/4 ton - and the current '02 Quad Cab Dodge.



I considered ALL those to be "real trucks", in the sense that they did all the hauling I had bought them for, and carried all the added passengers needed at the times I owned them.



Further, at those times, if faced with the opportunity to buy and use a full 2-seated 4 doored version of the same trucks, I seriously doubt I'd even have considered it - wasn't what I needed or wanted - just as is the case for many/most buyers today, percentage-wise...

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Griz and I are pretty much on the same page with this - tho' I understand where you are coming from Dan - and that too, pretty much fits in with my own interpretation, just different limits.



Trying to fit the "real-ness" of a work truck primarily based upon number of seats and how long the bed is (within reason!), is sorta arbitrary, and can vary greatly from one owner to another, and the actual "work" it is expected to deliver. For instance, a truck used by a plasterer may well primarily haul sacks of sand and plaster and relatively small tools that don't require a long bed - OR haul a large crew of workes. Yet, that truck will likely see it's share of heavy loads, even without extra seats and a full 8 foot bed.



ON the other hand, "Girly-trucks" heavily embelished with gaudy and relatively useless plastic add-ons such as spoilers and various similar visual external appendages whose function is far more related to eye appeal than useful benefit, are far more play-toys and light hauling use for suburbanites than serious work applications. I consider other lighter duty vehicles such as my Ranchero and El Caminos in pretty much the same category.



Just my own yardstick, and certainly subject to challenge from those who measure differently than I do... :-laf

 

[JUeckert]

folks, you can make a case for the dodge idiots all you want, but face the facts, ford and gm have the better 4dr design. i can come up with a bunch of folks that would agree also. dodge did it many moons ago, whats so hard about doing it again? i own two gm 4dr one tons, a ford 4dr one ton, and a 05 dodge 4dr one ton. the dodge is acceptable, but the ford and gm are perfect. i dont agree one bit with the megacab design, the gm and ford designs are the best of both worlds.

 

[Tractorat]

I, for one, would like to see a return of the regular cab (no back seats) with an 8 foot bed. I like my quad cab. But, for my purposes, I would like the above configuration better. Unloaded, a lot easier to see out of and drive. Not to mention a better look at any load in the bed. Not to mention the ability to have a full size pickup camper without having the tail end in another time zone.



My 2cents.



TRat

 

[Grizzly]

folks, you can make a case for the dodge idiots all you want, but face the facts, ford and gm have the better 4dr design. i can come up with a bunch of folks that would agree also. dodge did it many moons ago, whats so hard about doing it again? i own two gm 4dr one tons, a ford 4dr one ton, and a 05 dodge 4dr one ton. the dodge is acceptable, but the ford and gm are perfect. i dont agree one bit with the megacab design, the gm and ford designs are the best of both worlds.

To each his own. If you like Furd and Chevy, that's fine, I don't. To me Furd and Chevy are a mechanical nightmare. I'll take a Dodge Quad Cab with a Cummins any day.

 

[JUeckert]

to each his own would be correct. as for the mechanical nightmare, we are talking body configuration's here, not who's engine is the simpler design. i have had great luck with all my diesels, regardless of brand. as a matter of fact, the biggest chk i have had to write for a repair made to any of my diesel's, was the i wrote to replace the lift/inj pump on my 00 24v. i'am open minded enough to know all have there weak points. if i paid much attention to what close minded people had to say, i wouldnt have owned dodges from the get go. i have definitly caught more flak for owning them, then i have ford or gm trucks.

 

[Grizzly]

to each his own would be correct. as for the mechanical nightmare, we are talking body configuration's here, not who's engine is the simpler design. i have had great luck with all my diesels, regardless of brand. as a matter of fact, the biggest chk i have had to write for a repair made to any of my diesel's, was the i wrote to replace the lift/inj pump on my 00 24v. i'am open minded enough to know all have there weak points. if i paid much attention to what close minded people had to say, i wouldnt have owned dodges from the get go. i have definitly caught more flak for owning them, then i have ford or gm trucks.

I just have had miserable luck with 2 Fords and a GM. I never had a problem with my 95 Dodge and so far no problems with my 05 Dodge. I do realize however that problems can happen to any of them, even a Toyota.

 

[JimB1]

Tractorat, Dodge won't put a Cummins in a Reg Cab 3500 SRW Long Bed but will in a 2500 Reg Cab Long Bed.



I raised some eyebrows here in Seattle trying to get a new 3500 in that config and dealer search only turned up one 2500 (in my sig) in the Northwest in Dec '06.



I like driving the Reg Cab much more and only use the Quad Cab when it's time for luxury ride which is what I got it for instead of nice sedan.

 

[JUeckert]

I just have had miserable luck with 2 Fords and a GM. I never had a problem with my 95 Dodge and so far no problems with my 05 Dodge. I do realize however that problems can happen to any of them, even a Toyota.

all brands have had certain years or body styles that were better then others. back in the 80's and 90's, i was fairly happy with every ford i owned, just wasnt very happy with the manual transmission offering. the first gear was too high a ratio[not a granny gear]. gm's of the same vintage , the only problem i had with them was a lack of power. dodges, i was happy with the performance, but the transmission's and front ends both give me issues. step up to the late late 90's, ford had what was to me the best package on the road. gm had some things i did not like about them, [again lack of power comes to mind]but none of them gave me issues that werent considered normal wear and tear. i also avoided the computerized diesel at the time they were introduced. dodges, the 95 i had experienced electrical issues and was fixing to need a front end at 70k when i unloaded it. the 2000 model i had, again weak front end, got bit by the lift pump/inj pump issue, and had little nit picking cosmetic issues that i was unhappy with. out of owning 6 dodge diesel trucks, my 05 has been leaps and bounds better then all the other dodges i have had. but having said this, even the front end on it was reworked by the local dealer as part of a recall issue. the slave cylinder has been replaced, the radio replaced, and now the blower motor is makeing a racket . the 02 ford i have with twice the miles, has been in the shop for replaceing it's slave cylinder, nothing more. the 01 ford 450 i have has over 344k on it, it has cost me only slighty more to own in the 7 years i have had it, then the 00 model dodge i had did in two years. my trucks have to live in a work enviroment, [construction/ranching] i can live with some nit picking garbage, but when i'am left stranded, that's when i question wether or not i need to swear off a brand for a while. thats exactly what i did when the 24v trucks were on the market. all of them are a roll of the dice!

 

[Grizzly]

I can understand your frustration. Which of all the trucks you have had was the best overall. Your 05 has been your best Dodge, was there a Ford or a GM that can top that?

 

[JUeckert]

out of 6 dodges, from a reliability standpoint, and amount of repairs standpoint, the 05 has been the best. my 4 fords, were all good trucks, the 90 model i had suffered some clutch issues at what i considered prematurley. [falls back to that lack of granny gear in the transmission] my trucks must have a granny gear!!! havin said this, none of them experienced any drivetrain failures. 3 of my 6 dodges lost transmission's too early, 5 of them had frontend issues early. silver lineing to this, the dodge front ends were at least cheap to fix. all my gm trucks served me well, they just didnt have the power on the highway like the fords or dodges of the time. as mentioned previously, i avoided the computered gm's. i bought one about two years ago, and sure enough the pump went out early on, with just under 80k on it. to answer your question, which truck i prefer the most, i like my 02 ford better then the 05 dodge. the only sure enough repair either truck has had, is a slave cylinder. so one has been just as reliable as the other. after that the dodge has lost it's radio, had it's paint bubble in the bed, and now has a blower motor acting up. front springs have been replaced also. as mentioned earlier, as long as a truck dosent leave me stranded, i can live with the minor little crap, and it wont keep me from buying another. however i do still keep score on the number of issues i have had with any brand. back in 05, i was hearing less reliability issues with the dodges, then i was the fords, so i went dodge. to date, out of 7 gm, 4 ford and 6 dodges,[all diesel] not a single one has left me stranded. on a end note, the absolute best truck i have ever owned, was a gmc. under it's hood was what many considered the 2nd worst diesel made, a 6. 2. in nearly 400k miles of driveing, this truck has cost me the least in overall repairs[ for the miles]. my worst was a 5. 7 powered chevy, but i try to forget it, so i dont even keep score of that one.

 

[AClayton]

I love my 01' and the power when pulling a heavy trailer up a grade is simply 2nd to none. The mileage this truck gets pulling my trailer is incredible. I had a 99' GMC 1/2 ton that pulled the same trailer up until 2 yrs ago when I purchased the 01'. The 4. 8L V-8 had plenty of power solo but when hitched up or hauling a heavy load in the bed,it just wasn't a truck. It got 8. 5mpg pulling the same trailer that I get 14mpg on the 01'. BUT... . the 99' was hands down the more reliable of the two ! I have had all the common 01' failures that are talked about in detail on these very forums... . the reason I joined TDR in the 1st place. I did buy the truck used but it was in very good condition and was well kept up. Lift pump,cracked dash,front-end,auto-transmission,starter contacts and fuel pump relay issues. Now that the truck has had all the bugs worked out,it is a great vehicle to own..... although,the VP-44 is another problem with these trucks and I haven't had to replace it yet





Alan