Need advice...

[Huskerman]

As some of you know, I bought a brand new 04. 5 in March. Got a killer deal because it was an 04 on a lot full of 05's.



Since I have owned it, I have occasionally noticed some blue smoke on start-up. I did the usual and surfed these boards for an explanation. I read some threads about leaking injectors but thought, "no way" too new and the puff of smoke wasn't very bad at all.



About two months ago it started getting worse so I came here and again and started reading every thread I could about leaking injectors. About 2 weeks ago I read a thread about checking your oil to see if its over full. Sure enough, an inch above the "full" line. I immediately took the truck to the dealer. They had it a full day and couldn't find anything wrong. I specifically told them to check the injectors. They said they were able to reproduce the smoke but thought a flash they had would correct it along with the low mileage I was getting (13. 5 city). They said they couldn't explain or determine the cause of the oil being over-full but that maybe it was over-full from the factory. They brought the oil level down to normal for me and they specifically said that if the injectors were leaking there would be fuel all over the head (or something to that affect) and that there wasn't so they didn't believe it was an injector issue.



I took the truck home and for the first couple of days, no smoke at all. NONE. The flash also significantly improved my mileage!! But, after a few days the smoke was back. I went on vacation (leaving the truck parked) and when I returned 5 days later, again the oil was over the full line by an inch. I have only put 200 miles on the thing since the first time in the shop so I was a little surprised that it was already overfull again. I immediately took the truck back.



They have now had the truck 2 days and in that time they pulled the injector pump, no leaks. They ran a dye test and can't find where the diesel is coming from. They say that tomorrow they are going to call the "Star Line" to see where to go from here but they are thinking that either the head or the block has a defect or crack some-where. It seems strange to me if it was the block because then there should be water in the oil not diesel shouldn't there?



If anybody has any advice I would appreciate it. I am disappointed I don't have my truck but this is my 3rd Cummins and this is the first problem I have had with it so I ain't unhappy with the product.



The dealership could sure use some service tips though. They have told me more than once that I was at the front of the line only to find out they were working on another truck. PLUS they want to charge me $8/day for a rental car. That seems pretty crass considering my brand new truck has less than 3k miles on it and it's broke.



Shawn

 

[RMarkey]

that is kinda crappy, about the dealership. My truck smokes bue on just about every startup and I never even thought about checking the oil level to see if it's up. I change my own oil, of course, and double check it after the drive home from my shop, and after that I hardly ever check it. I know that's bad, but I hop in , get where I'm going, do that all day, then go to bed. Hop up next morning and at it again. I know, that's no excuse.



I'll check my oil tomorrow to see if it's high, maybe we have the same probs, I still have the crappy mpg, even after the reflash. I have no where level to park really but I'll try.

 

[rbattelle]

Does the oil smell like diesel? If I were you I'd pull a sample of oil and sent it to a lab to have it analyzed. That will tell you if it's diesel getting in the oil.



-Ryan

 

[DPKetchum]

About the only place it seems these 3rd generations add diesel to crankcase is injectors. They should have called STAR from the get go. Star kinda forses them to follow certain steps to aid in diagnoising.

 

[Huskerman]

The oil didn't spell like diesel to me, but my nose isn't the greatest. The folks at the shop said that it was "obvious" there was diesel in the oil because it was dark black and extremely runny and thin. We'll see what they say today.



I will say this: it sure is hard to find a good diesel mechanic here in Boise.



Shawn

 

[DPKetchum]

Any where for the most part.

 

[rbattelle]

Any where for the most part.

You gotta be your own expert...



-Ryan

 

[p-Bar]

If my truck showed 1" over the full mark I would of never started it and pulled battery cables so the jackasses at the dealer wouldn't start it. The only things that could get in the oil is water or diesel HELLO. I check my oil every fill up probably not often enough. I don't think think the HPCR is perfected yet and Bosch is using us for the test dummies.

 

[Huskerman]

Here's an update for those interested.



Talked to one of the service managers and he said that Star instructed them to pull all the injectors and inspect each one. They did that but none of them appear to have any issues.



Star now believes that there is a bad valve in the HPCR that is preventing the rail from pressurizing the correct amount resulting in the bad injector not being as noticable. Next step is they are going to replace the valve, re-assemble everything and then check for the leaking injector.



If folks are interested, I will keep post updates. FYI, I expressed my displeasure with the service manager about the rental car issue so they have offered me one free of charge.



Shawn

 

[rbattelle]

Star now believes that there is a bad valve in the HPCR that is preventing the rail from pressurizing the correct amount resulting in the bad injector not being as noticable. Next step is they are going to replace the valve, re-assemble everything and then check for the leaking injector.

This doesn't make a lot of sense to me. There is a rail pressure sensor, and the ECM sends a demand pressure to the CP-3. If the demand pressure doesn't match the rail pressure sensor, it trips a code (I think).



Please continue to post updates!! I'm very interested in the outcome!



-Ryan

 

[Scrappy]

your dealer is retarded! the injectors will look good, the problem is the solenoid inside the injector is not closing like it should! Does the truck clatter or knock @ low rpms under load? if it does that, the dealer can do an injector shutdown test to isolate the faulty injector(they shut down one injector at a time and listen for the clatter to go away). the rail and Cp3 are not what is wrong!

 

[jayhawktrailers.com]

heck i'd be unhappy with a car for free they ought to give you a pick up at least. we pull goosenecks all they time so what good would it do me have a car

 

[DPKetchum]

Chezz! Be thankful their covering wheels at all.

 

[Huskerman]

Update...

Well, last night when I picked up the loaner car (PT Cruiser Touring Edition btw) here's the update they gave me:



They had replaced the check valve on the HPCR thinking that it was releasing too soon causing the rail not to pressurize correctly so it wasn't obvious which injector was bad. They then pressurized the rail to the full pressure to see if it make the leaking injector more obvious. This didn't work.



At that point, the Star tech literally said he doesn't know where to go from here. He said usually the leaking injector (if that is the problem) is very, very obvious. They brought in another service manager and he recommended that they put everything back together, do an oil change and add a high concentration of dye to the fuel and run it for about 50 miles or so and see if they haven't fixed it by inadvertantly so to speak when they removed the injectors and put them back.



If there still isn't any sign of injector leakage, and the oil level doesn't change, they are going to give me the track back and have me monitor the oil level. They (the dealer) believe that there is a real chance that they may have inadvertantly fixed the issue when they replaced all the o-rings and such when they removed the injectors and put them back.



If the oil once again becomes over-full, they are going to replace the head. I do computer tech support for a living and although I don't know very much about diesel motors, I do have a pretty good understanding about proper troubleshooting techniques. So far, I feel like they have been pretty honest with me and the steps they are taking seem logical. I support 5k servers across North America for a major IT company and I can tell you that no matter how long you have done something, there are times when you don't have the answer and you just have to keep poking around and trying stuff until you figure out the problem.



Obviously I don't want to go home with a truck that isn't fixed, but so far, every indication they have given me is that they will continue to work the issue until it's resolved. That's all I want. This is MUCH better than the experience I had at Ford with a Powerstroke where they basically told me I was imagining things.



To answer your question Scrappy, no the truck has never knocked or cackled from what I can tell. I asked the service person I have been dealing with about the solenoid sticking and he said that if that were the case, the truck would smoke like an SOB AND there would be a noticable knock. Other than startup, my truck has never smoked.



It sounds like I should know something fairly concrete this afternoon. I will keep you all posted. Thanks everybody for your comments and insight. It's nice to have people to bounce things off of.



Shawn

 

[p-Bar]

Keep us posted ,good luck

 

[rbattelle]

Obviously I don't want to go home with a truck that isn't fixed, but so far, every indication they have given me is that they will continue to work the issue until it's resolved. That's all I want.

That's what really counts, in the end: that you're happy. It sounds like you've got a good dealer that is being honest with you. I think you're in very good hands.



-Ryan

 

[Scrappy]

A bad injector won't smoke all the time, they usually only give a puff of white smoke @ startup. the injector isn't necessarily stuck open, it is just not closing correctly(Completely). the knock is only noticeable under LOAD @LOW rpms, you won't hear it with a Manual very easily. the autos are easy because they are loaded as soon as it is put in gear. Have a look at all the bad injector threads for the symptoms.

 

[Huskerman]

Update...again

Well, tonights update goes like this. They put everything back together, changed the oil to make sure they knew the exact level, added dye and drove it for 50 miles. When they got back, it was over 1/4 inch past the full mark they left with after the oil change. They drove it another 50 miles just to make sure and when they got back it was ANOTHER 1/4 (1/2 inch total) over-full.



The dealer (and Star) are at a complete loss as to where to go next. They pulled the valve cover and once again, no sign of dye or anything. They have now placed a call to speak with the regional Dodge corporate rep. My dealer says he will make the call as to what to do next but my dealer thinks they really are down to 2 choices. 1) replace the head, 2) order a new what he called long-block. Hadn't heard that term before so he explained that a short-block is a new engine minus head and pumps etc. A long block is a complete new engine. Tomorrow is going to be interesting for sure.



Scrappy, I have never had white smoke, not once. It's always been blue smoke at start-up.



p-bar "We're not crazy, you are"--->I didn't get it. Sorry.



Shawn

 

[2Gen3Gen]

This sounds like crap! You need a NEW truck! Lemon law. . Period! :-{}

 

[p-Bar]

Shawn,

The Ford guys said you were imagining things so I wante to make you feel at home. Ha Ha



Don