Need dumptruck brand opinions

[clw1100]

I had put this in the Hauling/RV section, but I think it belongs here.



Our tool rental company is expanding to do dump truck contracting and services. They have put me in charge of researching the best USED trucks to get - mainly looking for reliability. Our specs (so far) are Class 8, Tri-axle, 44k + rear GVRW, day cab of course- mainly specified for standard daily dump truck use. So far I have been looking at the Kenworth T800 series but not locked into any brand yet.



My biggest questions have to do with the engines. I have talked to several independent drivers + a few trucking firms and they seemed to recommend the CAT engines for power, reliability, and MPG. With me being a Cummins guy, that is a hard pill for me to swallow if you know what I mean. They were telling me that the Cummins is great in the medium duty applications but not the best in the heavy duty class.



Your recommendations from any of you guys with experience in this arena would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in Advance for your help.

 

[E7mack96]

my experience is that an older Mack (I like the CL series 1996-2001) will do you just fine. On more current models. the best one so far has been the Volvo VHD (2001-2002) series with a Volvo motor. It get consistenly best mpgs (6. 0) and has had vitually no downtime. Look for a body made from ar450 steel.



I can't recommend Kenworth for dump work, or CAT as a powerplant unless you need big power. Cat loves the fuel $$$. Detroits are fuel efficient, a good series 60, maybe a 430 or 470 hp one.



If you want a bulletproof truck, get old mack rd trucks with a Mack 350 or 400 hp, and an 8LL transmission.

 

[clw1100]

Thanks for your reply. You mentioned the Mack "rd", is that a series or model #? I have not studied up on Mack yet.

 

[REFLOYD]

The old mack RD and CH series are good trucks. The guy i used to work for as a mechanic runs about 16 or 17 of these trucks in his company. He has had his 3 rd Macks for about 10 years and they are still going strong hauling rock and other misc stuff

 

[Doughboy21kd]

I think Western Star makes some strong product... . Just my . 02

 

[MoparBob]

clw1100,

If I were in your shoes, I would need a some more information before I started to look for a specific brand of truck. These are some of those things:



1) Where is the maintenance going to be done? If you are going to need outside shop support, I would need to find out what kind of shops are available and what types or brands of equipment they work on. If I was doing the maintenance myself, I would want to find out what kind of parts availability I will be facing with regards to what kind of equipment & brands of equipment I am considering.



2) What kind of price range am I looking at? Since you are set for specs, research what the various brands of equipment are going for in your application. Also, keep in mind delivery costs for trucks well outside the local buying area. Sometimes a good deal won't be good enough once you factor in the trip to inspect the truck and then the delivery.



3) Do I want an "as is" spec'd dump truck, or do I need a particular kind of dump body for the work I'm doing? Looking at chassis and then the cost of outfitting them with the dump body of your choice shouldn't be overlooked. In some cases, there can be good deals on OTR trucks that can be seperated from their sleepers then built for you by a body manufacturer/outfitter.



4) How long do I have to get these trucks "work ready"? If you are in a dire need of a dump truck now, then you may have to overlook some things in order to get rolling. Obviously, in a case like that you'll need to find the best deal in the limited amount of time available in order to go to work.



5) What are other succesful companies in my area of operations running for dump trucks? Sometimes it doesn't hurt to talk to someone to find out what their experience has been with a particular brand of truck and body. Locals can sometimes point out overlooked problems such as parts availaibilty or trends in maintenance problems within a particular brand in your application.



Once I had answers to these questions, I would talk to as many truck dealerships and body outfitters as possible to educate myself on the current market, trends in the specs of dump trucks (chassis and bodies), and spend some time on the internet checking various websites. Some good websites to check out:

,

[URL=http://www.truckpaper.com]

and

[URL=http://LaPineTrucks.com]



There are several good brands out there to choose from IMO. Mack, International, Peterbilt, and Kenworth. Cats are good motors, but so are the cummins. There seems to be a trend in the OTR community that leans toward the Cats, but with the small fleet I used to run, I had mostly Cummins and a few Detroits. I once ran a Kenworth T800 Tri-Axle Dump Chassis with am M11 Cummins that had been converted for our purposes that took way too much abuse to justify how good it was. We even had a driver try to burn the motor up on it by dumping the oil out of the engine pan (he pulled the drain plug) and he continued to drive it until it shut itself down. Then he would turn it off, start it back up and drive it again til it shut itself down again. The foreman who caught him said that he observed him do it at least three times before he realized he was doing something stupid and stopped him to find out what was going on. The pan was pulled, the engine inspected fine, the shop filled her back up with oil and we ran that truck until it burned. (I think it had 900+ thousand miles on it before it died). Don't shy away from the cummins if it suits your needs. I think you'll find that the more you research certain brands of dumps, you'll see certain brands stand out as more suited to your needs. I wish you luck on this venture and please feel free to ask specific questions... there are a lot of people on this site that would love to tell you what there experiences have been.



Good luck

 

[JFaulkner]

I would stick with the Kenworth or Pete, aluminum cab is the only way to go. Don't get me wrong Mack builds a great heavy duty truck, but since most Mack trucks are almost 100% Mack parts (engines, axles. . exc. ) it's a real pain unless you live close to a dealer. If you get a KW with a Cat or Cummins with off the shelf drivetrain (Eaton Fuller, Dana) they can be serviced at just about any dealer regardless of brand affiliation.



Also don't buy a dumptruck trying to get fuel milage. The nature of of the job (alot of stop and go) will kill it anyway. As far as "Cat loves the fuel $$$" I find this to be untrue. Keep in mind that the driver and maintaince (dirty filters) has more to do with fuel consumption than the brand of engine ever could.



If possible make sure that any truck your looking at has always been a dumptruck. There is a truck around here that used to be a road tractor, the 5th wheel and sleeper was removed and bed was installed. The problem with this is most road tractors don't have the frame rails or suspension needed for the off road use that most dumptrucks see.



just my $. 05

 

[DMcPherson]

anything from paccar will be good ( peterbilt and kenworth) they have the highest resale, and probably are built the best. western star was great before being bought out. stay away from international or freightliner. engine wise its hard to say, because it will depend on the year of the truck, if you are in the early 2000's or late 1999 you can get a n14 cummins or a 3406 cat which are both very good engines. stay away from the c15 cat with the twin turbo. the pre egr Cummins ISX is an excellent engine as well, the egr engines arent bad but expect to be replacing egr vavles frequently.

hope this helps, I have worked for Peterbilt, and currently work for Cummins so if you have any questions about either i would be happy to try and help. Dan

 

[Dl5treez]

How much is in the budget for the truck?



An ex-muni (city/county/state/federal) truck might be the way to go.



Our county highway department just sold two 4900 series Internationals, 1992 model year, for $7800 each at an auction.



Nothing wrong with them, they were just surplus trucks. DT466 mechanical, Allison autos, 48,000GVW, tandems with 4. 30's. Drake steel dump bodies. Solid trucks that were turn-key and will last a long, long time for their new owners.



My favorite truck brand is Kenworth and swear by their ability when spec'd right, and Macks are a no-brainer when it comes to dump trucks, but for a rental unit it's hard to beat an older municipal-spec International or Ford L8000 when it comes to initial cost vs. reliability vs. maintenance downtime.



An Allison automatic is pretty much bulletproof if the fluid is changed and helps to ease the shock load to the drive axles and propeller shafts, especially with an inexperienced operator.



Now if you need a big power big speed machine this goes out the window because most muni-spec trucks are slow and underpowered, but that also translates into less broken powertrain parts.

 

[bmoeller]

I would stick with the Kenworth or Pete, aluminum cab is the only way to go. Don't get me wrong Mack builds a great heavy duty truck, but since most Mack trucks are almost 100% Mack parts (engines, axles. . exc. ) it's a real pain unless you live close to a dealer. If you get a KW with a Cat or Cummins with off the shelf drivetrain (Eaton Fuller, Dana) they can be serviced at just about any dealer regardless of brand affiliation.



Also don't buy a dumptruck trying to get fuel milage. The nature of of the job (alot of stop and go) will kill it anyway. As far as "Cat loves the fuel $$$" I find this to be untrue. Keep in mind that the driver and maintaince (dirty filters) has more to do with fuel consumption than the brand of engine ever could.



If possible make sure that any truck your looking at has always been a dumptruck. There is a truck around here that used to be a road tractor, the 5th wheel and sleeper was removed and bed was installed. The problem with this is most road tractors don't have the frame rails or suspension needed for the off road use that most dumptrucks see.



just my $. 05

I would have to agree.



Cats don't all get crappy mileage. Our 430hp C-12 gets the same, or better mileage than both Macks trucks we have. The 2 Mack trucks are 300hp and 350hp.



Gets 6. 6mpg with a grain wagon and 4. 7+ with the bullrack. Worse in the winter, but also lots of hills wher I run, and the trailer pulls really hard sometimes. Haven't done the mpg calculations from my last run. Mid 5's I think. Hard pulling run, too. Truck got the snot worked out of it on a few of them.

 

[JUeckert]

well coming from someone in the buisness,i would say mopar advise is sound. around my parts when it comes to newer trucks that are likely to be used in severe service like dumptrucking and logging,macks and internationals rule. does that mean theres nothing else worth considering? no,it just means that there is a habit for these trucks to come eguipped with heavier type suspension,rear axles and frame's as standard equipment,plus product support for either is well covered nationwide. i have had good luck out of both! if you are looking for a truck that will seldom go off road,you have a wider selection to choose from. most makers have a heavy service pakage option available,but trucks like mack and ih are likely to come that way straight off the lot. my best advise,dont overly concentrate on the engine,the rear axle and especially the transmisson are very important componets when it comes to dump trucks and how well they hold up!

 

[clw1100]

Thank You ALL so very much for your responses. I am trying to digest your recommendations as best I can. We have been been looking in truckpaper.com. I was given a budget of $35K to $40K per truck- looking for 2 trucks to start out. A mid to late 90's tri-axle truck preferably in the <300K mile range. Hopefully we can get 2 or 3 good years out of them before a lot of major repairs. I will be doing the basic maintenance, but we will be shopping out the bigger / major maintenance items and repairs. We are located in the Nashville, TN area and we have alot of truck dealers and repair centers around. Anyone know of a reputable dealer or sales lot within 200 miles of Nashville, TN. ?



Once again thank you for your help.

 

[E7mack96]

I apologize for the CAT fuel economy statement. As we run heavy haul, we run CAT 3406E 600 Hp engines. We get about 3 mpgs loaded. I did own a CAT C-12 in a western Star 4964 7 axle dump. It did get close to 6 miles/gallon. As far as idle consuption, cats seem to use more at idle. Cat engines are a very good motor, just expensive to repair.

 

[bmoeller]

around my parts when it comes to newer trucks that are likely to be used in severe service like dumptrucking and logging,macks and internationals rule.

Around here it is mostly KW (T-800 and W900L) and Mack (CH/CL for the newer ones, and lots of Rs for the older ones). Some Petes. Very few IH (outside of the IDOT and county trucks), even with the dealer just as close as the others. Lots of Fords, too.

 

[ThompsonS]

$40K per truck is plenty.



I'd stick with a Mack.



Look around at the dumptrucks you see everyday, keep a mental count of how many are which brand.



80% will be Macks, 5% will be Fords and the rest will be a mix of all the other brands, Western Star and Peterbilt mostly.



ALL the logging trucks are Macks, unless they are old OTR tractors that were bought cheap.







First off, do NOT pay retail for a dumptruck.

or any truck, theres too many at auctions for 50%

or less of the retail price.

(except Dodge/Cummins, you can buy a 98 Kenworth or International for about the same as a 98 Dodge QC 4WD CTD)





Im not sure about dumps, but the retail value of a used class 8 truck tractor has dropped alot in the last couple of years, by about half.

You cant hardly give them away.





They sell for almost nothing at auctions.

Find the good auctions that sell the county & state owned trucks,



http://www.jmwood.com/



Hire a good mech to go with you & pick out the trucks.



The state of Alabama sells their vehicle when they get 3 yrs or 75K miles I think.



Ive seen some nice stuff sell real cheap.

 

[JFaulkner]

Im not sure about dumps, but the retail value of a used class 8 truck tractor has dropped alot in the last couple of years, by about half.

You cant hardly give them away.

This might be true where you live, but not here. With the new EPA regs older "pre EPA" trucks are worth more and more. We've actually considered selling one just because the value and demand is high, but we're too busy to sell any equipment now.



Now if you talking about cheap trucks like a FLD120 Freightliner with a detroit, your right you can't give them away. But the local KW dealer had 2 2001 W900L daycabs 475 cats with close to 650,000mi each, and they went for like $40k each. And these trucks were beat up, they hauled clay day and night to a brick factory. Were they worth it... . no not to me but I guess like a Harley they're worth whatever some idiot is willing to pay.

 

[plowking]

I drive a Freightliner with M-11 Cummins. It is a tank truck, pulls good and has automatic shutdown if low on fluids. Here in the East, you have to worry about bridge laws with dump trucks. In. Ma. you have to go by your wheel base when you register or I believe,get certified for your overweight permit. Some of trucking outfits have gone from newer Macks to Peterbilt, Kenworth and some Sterling. The newer Macks had turbo failures from the egr system for emissions feeding the intake. The Macks have Renault components, because they are now part of Renault. I have a friend with brand new International dump truck that just had motor rebuilt under warranty. The dealer found dust and dirt in intake beyond the air filter. It could be problem with the air cleaner housing, so our highway department ordered new air filter assembly for their new International to be safe. plowking

 

[ThompsonS]

Whats the EPA regs got to do with it?



other than having a crappy computer running the engine?



Does your state have smog tests for diesels?



I had a Ferightliner with the electronic Cummins, never again, you couldnt give me an electronic diesel. Nor a Freightliner.

what a hunk of crap.



It left me walking 3 times because some stupid sensor crapped out.



After the 3rd time in a month, I paid someone $5K to take the truck & bought a mechanical Cummins.



I like the low oil shutdown, but my older rigs had a manual override button you had to hold in till the oil pressure came up.



I bought Ford conventionals because they were half price of the other brands, with the same running gear, and International cabovers because you could buy 'em for almost nothing, $20K for one with 500K miles.



My best trucks came from Ryder, was nice to see all the maint records, even down to changing light bulbs. everyone will tell you they maintained their truck well, ask them for the recipts and they start hemming and hawwing.



The EGRs are crap on every diesel. if there is a way to disable it you should.