Need help choosing a cummins engine

[DRU]

I am looking to do a jeep diesel project and have been thinking of various drivelines to use. Number one would be a cummins 4bt hooked to an nv4500 transmission. The second would be a cummins 3. 3 using the same transmission. What I need to know is everything about hooking the motor to the transmission. Can you get the same flywheel/housing on a smaller engine as on a dodge ram. How do I get a clutch to work. Just your basic idiot questions. I am a newibe and would appreciate any help you could give.

 

[RBach]

DRU, Thanks for bringing this up. I've got a 1994 YJ that I would like to do the same thing too. I'm in the process of putting a ford 8. 8 rear end in my Jeep right now. Brackets should be here right after Christmas!!!! I Will be watching this post to see what comes up. Thanks

 

[FordCummins]

As far as I know, a bellhousing adapter and flywheel off of a Dodge truck should be the ticket for a 4bt/NV setup.

 

[DRU]

as far as I know( which is not a hell of a lot at that) the 4bt weights in at about 750lbs, the engine in my jeep is probally only 275lbs. I don't think 750lbs is a good idea on the front axle, not even shure the chassie would hold up to that kind of weight. But the 3. 3 is only 500 or so lbs and the 4liter in the jeeps is not much less than that so to me this is the clear choice for my jeep. This still leaves me with a ton of questions. Currently I have vaccum assist brakes, short of buying a jeep with manual brakes how do I get a vaccum assist with a diesel. I also have power steering, now to my knowledge this is just a pump that runs off the motor. A bracket could easily be fabed up to get this working so this is not as much of a concern to me in the planning stages.

Guages seem to be straight forward, assuming they come with directions, they must.

 

[Removed at users request]

DRU. The earlier Cummins used a vacuum pump and the later models 2003 and up don't have this. However, with the Jacobs exhaust brake kit comes a setup for installing a vacuum pump. This vacuum pump and mounts are in the kit. May be what you are looking for. Going through Cummins should get you what you are looking for. Mainly the vacuum pump and not particularly the pump mount, as it may not work on your choice of engine. Brackets can be fabricated easy enough. Good luck. ROBriney.

 

[DRU]

If you buy a new or rebuilt engine would it come with some sort of owners manual that would show how to hook all this stuff up?

 

[Steve Graham]

The 4B weight is about 750 lbs for a "short block", no accesseories, no flywheel, add all the stuff together and a complete engine is closer to 900lbs.

For you brakes go hydroboost. All used 4B's that I've seen come with a power steering pump already set up for hydroboost, two return lines. These pumps have a larger volume and higher pressure than standard PS pumps. Search TDR and google for hydroboost for more info.

Here's an expencsive way to do it:vanco hydroboost

You could piece one together a lot cheaper.



When you buy a used Diesel you get a used Diesel and a small warrantee, thats all.



Steve

 

[DKarvwnaris]

There is a huge difference between the 4bt 3. 3 model and the 4bt 3. 9 series engine. The blocks rear bolt pattern is different on the 3. 3 engine from the shared bolt pattern of the 3. 9 and 5. 9 b series engines.

If you go witht the 3. 9 4bt, it will be a bolt up easy connection for the nv-4500 Dodge bellhousing, clutch and transmission. later year wranglers have hydraulic clutches, so you can build an adapter line to merge the jeep master to the Dodge slave, then you just need to bleed it out and call it done. (easier said than done with the dodge slave as many will tell you, but it is a good solid setup when the air is out of it).

I am looking to build an adapter plates for the 3. 3 that will utilize the dodge bellhousing and another for the p-30 setup that Cummins designed for the 3. 9 4bt. I posted in another thread that I have a scanned image of the bellhousing adapter so the job is 1/2 way there. Kenny at Autoworld already has a prototype bellhousing water jetted out of OSB partially completed, we just need to push him to finish it, or else I will do the design myself with the parts we copied from my 4bt GM adapters I left with him last spring to get this ball rolling.

Let me know if the interest is there for the 3. 3 and I will follow through with it. It isn't worth it for me to do just 1 or 2 so I am not really pushing on with it currently, in the future when I am ready for it myself, I will get more motivated. I set this thread for alerts to my email so I will keep looking for interest here. Don't PM me, just post back here as I think we need a public recorded of the interest on this, if its to justify the work to others I am in contact with on it. I can then print the thread out to show neccesary people that I'm not just wasting their time.

Let me know, I think its a big potential for off road toys and related applications with Jeeps. Just remember, no Tier 2 DOT legal versions of the 3. 3 are available, (yet).

 

[DRU]

^This sounds very promising. I think there could be a huge market in a 3. 3 conversion, for simple reason like the weight factor. I would be willing to purchase an adapter that would hook a cummins 3. 3 to a nv4500. I am still intrested on how a clutch works, sence I have never unhook motor and transmission before. When ordering engine and transmission do they have to have the same spline count or something, shaft diameter.

 

[Steve Graham]

DRU,

Do you understand the quote from DKarvwnaris:"Just remember, no Tier 2 DOT legal versions of the 3. 3 are available. " This means NOT EPA approved for on road use, you can't licence the vehicle to drive it on the streets.

I would hate to see you spend a lot of money and time on a repower for something you can't drive daily, unless that's your goal.



Steve

 

[LAlessi]

some states dont care. mine doesnt

 

[wicked6]

LAessi - I was thinking the same thing - LOL. . Most of the DMV knuckleheads wouldn't know the difference, IMHO. . I'd say go for it. . I think fleet conversions are one thing, but a privately owned vehicle. . ?



Most states can reclassify converted vehicles, you'd just have to get an "inspection" for the official title / registration changes to take effect. New Mexico is a purely visual / audible process whereby you drive it into a bay, the inspector looks at it, then proceeds to say - "yep. . Sounds like a diesel. . "



Done.

 

[LAlessi]

^This sounds very promising. I think there could be a huge market in a 3. 3 conversion, for simple reason like the weight factor. I would be willing to purchase an adapter that would hook a cummins 3. 3 to a nv4500. I am still intrested on how a clutch works, sence I have never unhook motor and transmission before. When ordering engine and transmission do they have to have the same spline count or something, shaft diameter.

this statement alone tells me to not encourage you to try and be the first person to use a 3. 3. heck, im nervous with you trying to start with a 3. 9. i KNOW everyone starts somewhere, but these can be unique... at the least

 

[DKarvwnaris]

^This sounds very promising. I think there could be a huge market in a 3. 3 conversion, for simple reason like the weight factor. I would be willing to purchase an adapter that would hook a cummins 3. 3 to a nv4500. I am still intrested on how a clutch works, sence I have never unhook motor and transmission before. When ordering engine and transmission do they have to have the same spline count or something, shaft diameter.

As Lee has mentioned, this is not a task for even some seasoned mechanics to undertake. Trying to repower a rig with even a full parts kit is hard enough for some tech's to get through.

If you don't have the basic knowledge of automotive principles such as clutch assemblies and related driveline components, I would be very concerned about taking on any of this without some tech school training or possibly local shop classes in a community college etc.

The clutch assemblies are only a small part of the issues you'll need to overcome to get another engine into a vehicle other than stock equipment. Driveline angles, motor mount fabrication, coolant system mods, electrical wiring harness alterations, exhaust system built from scratch since nothing will fit without custom fit up. Lot's more to consider, but this is the most obvious off the top of my head.

 

[DRU]

Those are all good concerns, and they will all be challanges. I live in michigan and I don't ever remember having to get a car inspected for anything. But im no expert on auto laws in michigan or anywhere else. I have 3 welders and metal saws for mounts are the lest of worries. I still think it can be done and I dont know why all you seasoned mechanics seem to think this compination wouldent work. :--) I would like to see a diesel conversion if anyone has got one around the washtemaw county michigan area.

 

[LAlessi]

65 to 85hp

215tq



front mount pto. a ECM (computer), an stationary engine injection pump.



it has either an sae3 or 4 bellhousing.



take pics!

 

[DKarvwnaris]

Those are all good concerns, and they will all be challanges. I live in michigan and I don't ever remember having to get a car inspected for anything. But im no expert on auto laws in michigan or anywhere else. I have 3 welders and metal saws for mounts are the lest of worries. I still think it can be done and I dont know why all you seasoned mechanics seem to think this compination wouldent work. :--) I would like to see a diesel conversion if anyone has got one around the washtemaw county michigan area.

No one said it wouldn't work, I know it will work. The issue is a legal concern mostly for me. As a "seasoned" mechanic, I have seen the results of altering emmissions equipped vehicles, the fines are very heavy. Whether you know it or not, inspections are not the problem, law enforcement officers nationwide have the right to perform "safety" inspections. This includes mechanical compliance of things such as mufflers, cat's, and engine mods that violate FEDERAL standards. (commonly referred to as 49 state).



The only concern mechanically with an industrial/agricultural diesel engine is the injection system's design. The injection pump is set up to maintain a certain HP/ RPM, which is different from an automotive style injection pump which is a variable response system controlled by an accelerator cable/ foot pedal. The internal parts of the injection pump's governor assembly is completely different.

Mounts are not a huge road block in themselves, I offered the challenges a repower includes to prepare you, not to scare you off.

Can't help you with local repowers in your area, try attending a few truck or car shows, lots of tinkerer's show them off there. Regardless of the engine type, a repower is mostly just about how good a person's skills and knowledge are, it requires both fabrication and mechanical skills. Something few mechanics or welders share both of. Hot rodders and equipment repair tech's for farm, construction,logging etc. are some of the most versed in this subject usually.

 

[RBach]

Found this new thread with several diesel conversions into jeeps. www.pirate4x4.com, go to "bulletin board" then "jeep talk (hardcore). " Sorry I don't know how else to get you there. Thanks Ray

 

[Sc0]

I have two 4BT's for my Jeep projects, for operating the power brakes I am going to use an electric vacuum pump which are easily sourced from hotrodders catalogs. The transmission setup for one will be a NV4500 setup with the external slave cylinder and transfer case will be the NP203/NP205 doubler... I am doing a 132" wb Jeep J truck that now has a Olds 455 stuffed into it but will be cutting into the firewall to set the engine back for weight distribution reasons and to even up the driveshafts. The stock front axle is a stronger Dana-44 compared to yours with the HD setup using 8 lug hubs. The Dana-44 should live a long and happy life supporting the 4BT and might be worth looking into especially if you plan on driving it rather than doing hardcore offroading. So far I have only the engines and GM transmission adapters, everything else I am still sourcing and researching...

 

[DRU]

Learning more everytime I check this thread! Keep things coming.