Need some help with Luc Clutch Problem.. did I tick someone off??

[BushWakr - RIP]

Hi guys, I posted this question some days back and got no response at all. Did I cross someone? I hope not, never meant to if so. .

A 92 5speed just had a new Luc clutch installed and had to use an OEM pilot bearing cause the machine shop said not enough material left to enlarge hole for Kevlar one.
No probs with rattling with old clutch but now there is a rattle really loud with clutch out in neutral. Also there just as you start to go through each gear. Takes more effort to get it to do it when you hit 4th though. Starts after truck has warmed a bit, and none when cold. Had clutch out twice and cant find cause. Any ideas would be immensly appreciated before we have to take it apart a 3rd time. This is costing big bucks. Clutch hooks up just fantastic, no more wheel hop and smooth as silk otherwise.
HELP!~!~

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93. 5 D250 4X4,HD Spring Pkg, Rancho 7000's, Rear Swaybar,Dual Shock Front Stabilizer,BD Injectors,31/2" Mandrel bent exhaust,16cm 'Hot End',Modest Pump Tweaks/Timed,K&N Air,Isspro Pyro,Tach,transmission Temp,Auto Meter Oil Filled Boost Ga. , 3:54's, 4 Speed Auto, Clubcab, Aftermarket Reclining Buckets w/ctr Drop Down seat/console, Black over Silver, 21psi,285-65R-16's,American Racing Clear Coat Mags, Amsoil 15W-40HD Marine,12,000 lb. Warn Winch,KC Spots. 97,000 Kms.

 

[DJP]

I know this is a dumb question to ask, but I'll ask it anyway. Did you replace your throw out bearing (clutch release bearing) when you did your clutch? It sounds like your problem is either the pilot bushing, or the throw out bearing. My truck began making a squealing noise (at around 154K mi) which was very noticable when starting out in 1st or 2nd gear. Although my clutch disc was only 50% worn, I replaced the whole assembly with a Sachs clutch kit I purchased from Autozone. The kit included a new Disc, Cover, Throw out bearing, and Pilot bearing for less than 1/2 the cost of the Dodge dealer. Several TDR members have asked me about the OEM Sachs clutch kits sold through Autozone. Autozone listed the vendor as Borg Beck, but I am told they no longer carry this vendor or clutch.

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89 D-250 LE 5 speed 3. 55 Limited slip, K&N, Full Boar Muffler, 3" exhaust, Diesel Dynamics Stage 1 kit, Boost/Pyro. & 16cm2 215K miles.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

If there is vibration, either the pressure plate or disk is out of balance. Eliminate the latter by trying in gear with clutch disengaged, truck stopped. At that point the disk is not spinning.

The dsk hub could be loose or the dampening springs could be loose. Also check that the torque stop pins in the disk are OK.

 

[joesoot]

I've been lurking on this post since you posted it... I experience a similar sound. Though not as squeaky as a mouse, more of a radial vibration(cadence) in 2nd and 5th or when I let the clutch out and i'm sitting in N at a stoplight, If I engage the clutch while stopped the vibration goes away. My clutch has around 6k miles and the throwout bearing around 4k miles(warranty w/ the transmission). The input shaft has supposedly been "polished" when it slipped about a 1/4" back.
Mr. Donnelly: Would you be so kind as to dumb down your last post for me?

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

The noise may or may not be associated with a vibration = out-of-balance condition. The flywheel is zero balanced so installing it in any position-- i. e. bolt hole in it to bolt hole in the crank, is OK. If the pressure plate is a lottle off center--even o. 005", it will be out of balance enough to cause a vibration you can feel at an idle. The problem with the LuK in the early truck is this: your flywheel has a step in it that the original Sachs used with a machined outer rim of the pressure plate to achieve centering. The LuK uses two undersized bolt holes that barely accept the shoulders of shouldered capscrews that are used with the 94-up flat flywheel. That wheel has the first 3 threads machined out of the mounting bolt holes to accept the shoulders of the capscrews and achieve centering. The outer perimeter of the LuK seems to fit inside the step of the early wheel, but may not be tight enough or concentric enough to guarantee centering of the pressure plate.

Rattling is usually associated with either a damaged hub of the disk or with loose dampening springs in the disk hub. A smaller possibility is that the stop pins in the hub are loose. These pins or tabs hold the pieces of sheet metal of the hub together and also serve as stops when the center plate of the hub rotates, compressing the dampening springs. LuK is using long springs with little support, and they take a "set" and get loose. Any slight vibration, even that normally associated with the Cummins, might be enough to make them rattle at idle.

The clutch pressure plates is bolted to the flywheel and hence the engine. It always turns at engine rpm. The disk is spline-fitted to the input of the transmission. If the road speed is zero and the transmission shifter is in gear, the input does not turn, so the disk does not turn. That condiion will help you eliminate the disk from the source of the rattle since if it is not moving it is not rattling. There is still the cance of the pilot bearing (if you have the needle bearing used 94-up) rattling when the speed between the input and the flywheel is different. In neutral with the clutch out (foot off the pedal) this differential is zero and the input rotates at engine speed. The truck is not moving since the ranny is in neutral with the service brakes/parking brake on. At that point the pilot bearing should not rattle even if bad. Furthermore, if the pilot bearing is bad, clutch release will be poor and your foot will have to go near the floow to get enough clearance for the disk to release from the pressure plate and flywheel surfaces. Even then, it may not cleanly release and it will be hard to put the truck into gear at a stop.

I hope this is detailed enough for you. #ad



If there is vibration, either the pressure plate or disk is out of balance. Eliminate the latter by trying in gear with clutch disengaged, truck stopped. At that point the disk is not spinning.
The dsk hub could be loose or the dampening springs could be loose. Also check that the torque stop pins in the disk are OK.

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Holy Smokes,, no pun intended... .
Thanks a million guys, my brother and I obviously have some things to check out. Can't thank you enough for the info, and we'll let you know what we find.
Outstanding !!

Regards, Bush' and his brother.

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93. 5 D250 4X4,HD Spring Pkg, Rancho 7000's, Rear Swaybar,Dual Shock Front Stabilizer,BD Injectors,31/2" Mandrel bent exhaust,16cm 'Hot End',Modest Pump Tweaks/Timed,K&N Air,Isspro Pyro,Tach,transmission Temp,Auto Meter Oil Filled Boost Ga. , 3:54's, 4 Speed Auto, Clubcab, Aftermarket Reclining Buckets w/ctr Drop Down seat/console, Black over Silver, 21psi,285-65R-16's,American Racing Clear Coat Mags, Amsoil 15W-40HD Marine,12,000 lb. Warn Winch,KC Spots. 97,000 Kms.

[This message has been edited by BushWakr (edited 02-11-2001). ]

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

ALSO, for what it's worth, bad or failing throwout bearings usually don't *rattle*, they usually squeal or grind - the "rattle" mentioned seems far more likely to be caused by a clutch/pressure plate problem as covered above. The TYPE of sound involved with a given problem can frequently go a LONG way in narrowing down the source...

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http://community. webshots.com/user/davison71 Early '91 250, 727 AT, 307 rear... Banks Stinger exhaust, intercooler... US Gear OD... MORE than a match for every new PS Ford encountered so far...

 

[South Bend Clutch]

We have found that if pilot brg. was abused, the oscillation of the imput shaft has a direct affect on front brg. of trans. . By replacing both pilot and front brg. can help with the rattle in neutral. If the shoulders of the pressure plate bolts are bottoming out before clutch is secure this will cause a release problem.

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Well guys, I hate to say it but... .
After trying 3 times to resolve the rattle problem, including a call by the transmission shop to the supplier, my brother had to pull the Luk out. He went with another upgraded version clutch. The shop insisted that the disk was probably the issue. They showed him two different diesel rated disks compared to the Luk and they had dual springs, not single. They also seemed shorter than the Luk from South Bend. As soon as he did that the rattle was gone! Nothing, not a peep. He does report that the clutch pedal feels a tiny bit "easier" to cycle, but that the present clutch/press. plate combo feels just as good. Now we'll see if it last as long as the other was hoped to. Now we'll see if he gets refund service!
Absolutely no flame intended !
FWIW

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93. 5 D250 4X4,HD Spring Pkg, Rancho 7000's, Rear Swaybar,Dual Shock Front Stabilizer,BD Injectors,31/2" Mandrel bent exhaust,16cm 'Hot End',Modest Pump Tweaks/Timed,K&N Air,Isspro Pyro,Tach,transmission Temp,Auto Meter Oil Filled Boost Ga. , 3:54's, 4 Speed Auto, Clubcab, Aftermarket Reclining Buckets w/ctr Drop Down seat/console, Black over Silver, 21psi,285-65R-16's,American Racing Clear Coat Mags, Amsoil 15W-40HD Marine,12,000 lb. Warn Winch,KC Spots. 97,000 Kms.