New Bio rule

[SHobbs]

Well well I see that the state of Texas has put an end to buying bio blended with #2. Filled up today with B100 and saw a sign on the pump that blended fuels are no longer a go. Only thing offered at the pump is B100. Wonder if big brother is trying to take care of big oil. This is coming from the Texas Commission on Environmetal Quality. So far on their site I have seen nothing about stopping the blended fuel. May have to make a phone call in the morning. Feel sorry for those places that are selling blended only with no B100 and the customers that were buying it.

 

[Headshot zod]

Thats unfortunate

 

[67guzzler]

Ok -- I'm lost here. Can't you pump say 15 gallons of B100 and 15 gallons of #2 and then drive away having your own blended B50 ????

 

[Ereynolds72]

My reason for burning bio in the first place was to try to keep my money from the people trying to kill us overseas and keep it here at home. For that reason alone, I prefer B100.

 

[RustyJC]

Well well I see that the state of Texas has put an end to buying bio blended with #2. Filled up today with B100 and saw a sign on the pump that blended fuels are no longer a go.

Hmmm... . I just Googled this and can't find any reference whatsoever to biodiesel blends having been outlawed in Texas. Something is curious here.



Rusty

 

[SHobbs]

Rusty



Same here I have found nothing either. I was told that blended can't be sold at the pump only B100. There was a note saying that the TCEQ made the decision that bio blends could no longer be sold at the pump. I don't think it's a law just some decision that was made, why I am not sure.



JGann



Sure you can drive down the street and get #2 to blend it yourself if you like. Just saying this is ridiculous when all you had to do is use one pump, one place.

 

[AggieJustin]

I found this article that talks some about not allowing blended bio-diesel because it might not meet the requirements of the Texas Low Emission Diesel Rule (TxLED).



Will biodiesel go bust?



Here's a clip from it... .



... And unless the biodiesel industry can come up with a solution before Oct. 1, companies like local start-up Austin Biofuels will be marginalized, unable to expand sales of biodiesel blends in demand by municipal and commercial fleets. TxLED regulations stipulate that along with diesel, any alternative fuel blended with diesel must independently meet its stringent emissions standards. So although Austin Biofuels can continue selling B100 (100% biodiesel) after TxLED, the expanded commercial business they hope to develop – which includes sales of biodiesel blends like B20 (20% biodiesel, 80% conventional diesel) – depends on meeting TxLED regulations...

 

[RustyJC]

Yeah, I found THIS writeup. It's tied to the NOx reduction plan for the non-attainment areas. Here's an excerpt:

The air quality in approximately 110 east Texas counties is out of compliance with the federal Clean Air Act’s standard for ground-level ozone. In response, the State of Texas revised its compliance plan to do a number of things including a change in the formulation (physical properties) of diesel fuel offered for sale in those non-attainment counties. The goal of these changes is to reduce NOx emissions and other pollutants from diesel-powered vehicles and non-road equipment. The new low emission diesel fuel is commonly referred to as “TxLED”.



Biodiesel is covered by these new “TxLED” regulations. The executive director of the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality (TCEQ) has determined that blending biodiesel into Texas Low Emission Diesel (TxLED) is not acceptable unless the blend has been approved by TCEQ as being equivalent to TxLED in reducing NOx emissions.



These new fuel property requirements were set to take effect for fuel producers beginning October 1, 2005. However, per a decision made last Friday (9/23/05), that date has been delayed for 30 days due to the impact on refining and distribution infrastructure from the recent hurricanes.



The NBB, industry members, and stakeholders have been engaged in this issue for many months and it is one of the industry’s top regulatory priorities.

Rusty

 

[SHobbs]

I talked with Morris Brown at the TCEQ and this is what he told me



Due to the new lower sulfer diesel (ULSD) that is coming out with the effort to reduce NOx emissions anyone selling Bio blends must have the fuel tested to see if it meets the new NOx standards. He said that bio blends have a tendency to raise NOx emissions and apparently they can't have that going on. B100 is not regulated due to it not having any #2 in it. He told me that there is only one place that has had their blend tested and approved and it is in Denton TX. There is a place selling B20 in Keller Tx and they are not on the list yet.



Same info as posted above I know but thought I would pass it on, straight from the horses mouth, lol. Makes me glad I switched to B100. I am wondering where the bio movement will go now.

 

[cj hall]

fuel in tx

mix it yourself and then keep your mouth shut !!!!

the goverment is looking at everthing we do

we need to band together and stop this madness.

big oil needs to go away!!!!

 

[SHobbs]

mix it yourself and then keep your mouth shut !!!!

the goverment is looking at everthing we do

we need to band together and stop this madness.

big oil needs to go away!!!!



True you can do that and it shows just how dumb the state is. This is another rule or law whatever you want to call it that has no teeth and is unenforceable. Texas is just to worried about loosing their federal hiway funding.

 

[bighornram]

I'm a little confused by this because test results that I have seen indicates that exhaust gasses "with as little as 2% biodiesel" burns cleaner than #2 with the exception of NOx. This can be improved by adding an additive. Why can't the blend be treated and comply with TX's emission law?



(edit)

A quick check on the Blue Sun website indicates the following:

#ad


Source: National Renewable Energy Laboratory

(NREL) Golden, Colorado

 

[RustyJC]

..... with the exception of NOx.

And therein lies the problem. These non-attainment areas have to lower their NOx emissions under order of the Federal EPA or risk losing their Federal highway funding. They have pollution abatement plans on file - anything that works against these plans raises the red flag to TCEQ.



Rusty

 

[AggieJustin]

I'm a little confused by this because test results that I have seen indicates that exhaust gasses "with as little as 2% biodiesel" burns cleaner than #2 with the exception of NOx. This can be improved by adding an additive. Why can't the blend be treated and comply with TX's emission law?

I think what's going on here is that they won't approve blends across the board, they want to do it on a case by case basis to ensure everyone is using the additive to bring down the NOx emissions.

 

[SHobbs]

I have been trying to figure out why there is any NOx emissions in bio. I am running B100 soybean oil, this is a plant oil there are no chemicals in it. #2 is petroleum which has all kinds of chemical properties in it, bio does not. Why does NOx increase when you burn plant oils? Common sense would lead you to believe that burning bio whether a mix or straight would reduce NOx. I guess I am in need of enlightenment on tis subject.

 

[RustyJC]

NOx is formed from the N2 (nitrogen) and O2 (oxygen) molecules in the combustion air. NO2 is formed by N2 + 202 --> 2NO2 while NO is formed by N2 + O2 --> 2NO. NOx formation is time and temperature dependent, which means if the combusion process is either hotter or longer (slower burning), then more NOx will be formed during the combustion event. This means that NOx isn't formed necessarily from what's IN the biodiesel blend (or straight biodiesel), but by the fact that the combustion event is slightly changed with biodiesel. The fact that many people report a quieter combustion event would imply that biodiesel may be slightly slower burning, which gives more time for NOx formation.



Rusty

 

[RMachida]

I have been trying to figure out why there is any NOx emissions in bio. I am running B100 soybean oil, this is a plant oil there are no chemicals in it. #2 is petroleum which has all kinds of chemical properties in it, bio does not. Why does NOx increase when you burn plant oils? Common sense would lead you to believe that burning bio whether a mix or straight would reduce NOx. I guess I am in need of enlightenment on tis subject.

The NOx is a byproduct of the combustion process (air is roughly 80% nitrogen) and in general, the higher the combustion temperature, the higher the NOx emissions (and probaby lower unburned HC emissions) and better fuel utilization. But fuel efficiency isn't the goal is it... .

 

[SHobbs]

Ok so if B100 has 118,000 btu/gal and #2 has 131,000 btu/gal then that would explain the rise in NOx, correct? The bio burns slower producing more than #2. With that said I am now curious how bio can be enhanced to have a lower NOx emission.



What about B100, the sulfur content is <1 ppm compared to #2 at 300 ppm. How does it rate on NOx emissions? I have not found that info yet is why I am asking.

 

[NavyDood]

SHobbs... I guess you missed my post from about a month ago. BTW... How much is B100 going for from Bobby now?



As of Nov 1, TCEQ (Texas Commision on Environmental Control) got involved and biodiesel sellers are not allowed to sell blended biodiesel anymore unless they use the additive "Viscon". A B50 blend without the Viscon raises the NOx emmissions by . 5% and TX is freaking out about it. I guess the EPA is on the states back also. Here is a link as to the requirements for the state of TX. http://www.tceq.state.tx.us/assets/...LED-A-00004.pdf



Supposedly Viscon is really expensive and the amounts needed just for a B20 blend could raise the prices of B20 by 15-20 cents a gallon. There are multiple company's trying to get an alternative of Viscon available. This in turn, would lower the prices of Viscon (or equivalent) to where it will only affect the cost by 3-5 cents a gal.



But... All you have to do if you want a blend is fill half way with Dino Diesel then fill the rest up with B100.



DFWBiodiesel sells just B100 now.

 

[SHobbs]

NavyDood,



Filled up last week and it was $2. 45/gal. A little higher than #2 but what the heck at least the money is staying here and not going to the oil companies. I did some research and discovered that B20 raises NOx by 3% and B100 raises it 9%, guess I am a bad polluter. Thats according to what I read and it is the only info I have found so far.

I am also on a tear right now trying to find out what soybean oil costs from the producers, in other words straight from the source to see if this stuff is a square deal and that there is no huge markup. I am curious what Bobby is paying for it.