Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) new brakes and front end

[pdxkid]

going to be about $1500. need new shoes, drums, wheel cylinders. calipers, pads, fluid. pittman arm, trackbar, tierods... maybe some more things i'm not mentioning. my buddy runs a shop and is gonna do all the work. does this sound reasonable? going to use moog front end parts. good idea? thanks in advance.

 

[SDrake]

I put moog greasable ball joints in my truck at 68,000 miles and grease them every oil change, 5K. They are still tight. That was parts made in 1997. Who knows now but I think I would go with moog again unless I got some more fresh scoop. The track bar can be repaired with Lukes link for about $50. I think I installed mine at under 100K miles. Had to adjust play a couple of times but it is still tight as I write this. Hope this helps

 

[SRath]

$1500 is going to cover all those parts and the labor? I just did my '96; no rear brake work at all, and no new calipers; but everything else and the parts alone cost more than that. The thing about quotes like that is they don't include the cost of all the problems he will find and deal with while doing it.

Like control arm bolts that will not come out and take hours to cut apart and now you need new bushings and bolts at the least, if not new control arms. New unit hubs when the old ones turn out to be shot and/or terribly stuck. New brake hoses and hard lines when they turn out too rotted and corroded to reuse.

Are you really going that far into that front axle (balljoints) and NOT going to have new axle seals and a bushing installed? If your stuff is anywhere near as shot as mine, I guarantee your passenger side axle seal is shot.

And I sure as heck wasn't going to do all that work and bolt everything back together with 14-year-old ujoints in the axle shafts. Discovered the 14 year old u-joints and cv joint in the driveshafts were even worse.

I would take that $1500 quote and double it if I were you. the list of worn out parts and extra labor wil get very long on a 14 year old truck. Of course, there is the possibility your buddy will turn a blind eye to suspect parts and labor not included in his quote and just ignore and reinstall them in order to keep his quote.

What about your brake rotors? New or resurface yours? New means removing and reinstalling wheel studs. I was able to save some of mine, but not all, and they are not cheap.

I bead-blasted and cleaned and painted ALL parts in hopes of keeping future corrosion minimized. Many of those parts would not even bolt back together decently or torque correctly with so much crud and corrosion on them. $1500 will not cover that.

Are you reinstalling (junk) factory parts? You should upgrade to the heavy duty T-style crossover steering and 3rd gen trackbar at the least if you plan to keep the truck awhile. The steering components cost no more, but the 3rd gen conversion does. I went ALL Moog from RockAuto on steering along with an adjustable 3rd gen trackbar conversion and adjustable poly bushing control arms (I murdered my factory control arms removing them). I did CumminsPower98's greaseable hub mod while I was at it, too.

I plan to keep my truck for as long as I can. Maybe your plans are shorter term. I also plow snow with it, so mine was as shot as it could get and needed all the beef I could give it.

But parts alone have run WAY over $2000. WITHOUT touching the rear brakes, front shocks (yet), calipers (new pads and turned rotors only), or new hubs. It took $75 in gear oil alone (Amsoil) to fill the front differential!

I think you need to discuss this with your buddy and understand each other very well on what you are willing to allow to be reinstalled and what he might run into doing what he quoted.

These kind of deals have been known to strain friendships.

 

[pdxkid]

S Rath, thank you for the thoughtful and comprehensive reply. I do not know the extent of the wear in the front end, but I will certainly address all you have mentioned. he typically charges me parts (his cost) plus 10-20% to cover his labor, as I send him a lot of business. I, knowing what I don't know, don't dare go into the 3rd gen trackbar switcheroo. I do plan to keep the truck, do I'm hoping that what I do will last at least 3 years. The rotors don't seem to need turned. I'll post a follow up when I get the truck back next week. Thanks again for all the help.

 

[SRath]

Ram Modifications

Here is Mark's (CumminsPower98) website. It should be mandatory reading for any 2nd gen owner. He's a pretty smart dude with practical and proven modifications and improvements.

At LEAST have your friend buy the components for the heavy-duty T-style crossover steering. Not one bit pricier. Not one bit more labor to install. But oh so much better than the factory Y-style your truck has now!

Scroll down a ways and you will find where Mark made it ultra easy to see the differences. He also gives correct part numbers. I'll bet your friend will agree it is well worth improving that factory linkage design.

 

[bmoeller]

At LEAST have your friend buy the components for the heavy-duty T-style crossover steering. Not one bit pricier. Not one bit more labor to install. But oh so much better than the factory Y-style your truck has now!

My '99 has the inverted T. The '97 has the y. The T is far better.

Don't be afraid of the 3rd gen trackbar conversion and a steering brace. Easy to do. I swapped them over to my '99, from the '97. Since I'd done it once before, I had it all swapped in about an hour. If you do it by yourself, like I did, get a jack for the sway bar putting the brace in. It is a big PITA to do without one!

 

[JMcCoy]

I aggree with SRath's recomended front end modifications, but if your only planning on keeping the truck for three years. Shame on you! HA HA HA! just do the T style front end parts and throw some pads/shoes on it.

 

[BBeckmann]

How do u get to marks (cumminspower98)website? I'd like to do the newer t style steering conversion on my '97 12valve. Thanks

 

[SRath]

Scroll up to post #5 and click the first line where it says Ram Modifications. Takes you right there.

 

[BBeckmann]

Thank you 4 the quick reply

 

[pdxkid]

update on front end and brake work

Got her back from the shop, here's the damage.



new:

drag link

tie rod ends

adjuster sleeves

center link

trak bar

rear wheel shoes

rear wheel cylinders

rear wheel hardware

front brake calipers

rear brake drums

brake system flush



all this plus labor for above cost $1748. 51. A little more than his $1500 estimate, but we decided to go with the "T" style vs. "y" and used moog parts.



i then had to take it to an alignment shop and they suggested I need to install:

upper and lower ball joints, both sides

left side sway bar link

left u axle wheel ujoint



in order to make it really tight



my buddy says "nah, you don't need ball joints for another couple years or so, they're a little loose, but it's ok"



so I'm trusting in my buddy as it is of course cheaper, but I don't want to go this far and not totally fix it.



How does my experience here so far sound to you guys?

Thanks again to all who responded in the past.

 

[JMcCoy]

Sounds like your on the right path. SRath was correct in that there is ALWAYS more than what one expects, when dealing with steering and brake components. I'm sure the your friend means well and is trying to save you money. I would NOT take his suggestion of waiting on the ball joints. The slack in a ball joint not only hurts alignment and steering wander, it is also very unsafe. If you hit a bump, the slack in the joint will slam within itself like a hammer. This could cause the joint to break. Our vehcles are top heavy. This could easily cause a roll-over. I'm not trying to scare you, but the ball joints are the only thing holding the spindle onto the axle. Will this happen? Probably not, but I would not take that chance with mine or my loved ones lives.



With all that good work and heard earned money you've spent, you should go all the way and finish it right. You will thank yourself.



Please let us know how your truck is driving in compared to before the rebuid. Thanks

 

[pdxkid]

JMcCoy, thank you for your input. It just seems odd to me NOT to do the ball joints while everything else is tight. Unfortunately I broke the bank doing what I've done and will have to wait a month or two. Since I don't drive the truck much, that shouldn't be too big of a deal. The truck drives MUCH better, far less steering wheel turn without the wheels actually turning, a bit quieter in the front end too. I realize my friend was just trying to save me some money, but, darnit! I want my 14 yr old truck to be like new! Except for the crappy white paint and failing drivers seat.

As a sidenote to this whole project, my gf is starting to hate "RigDog" (that's the truck's nickname). She used to love the power, sound, and commanding view from the seats, now she is bitter at the money I'm spending on it. I tried to explain that big trucks just cost more in parts and how this once every 5-10yr maintenance just had to be done on my watch, and that the Cummins will last "forever", but she just shakes her head. ALSO, since I'm maybe one of those bratty guys who don't actually use the truck to tow/haul, she thinks I'm not justified in owning it. She may be right, but the occasional hauling I do would overload a toy' and gas mileage stinks in anything but a cummins (plus, at 6'2" most other vehicles are just uncomfortable).

 

[SRath]

The axle shop is sugesting one u-joint in addition to the ball joints. Don't skimp there, the labor is too much to pass up the opportunity to replace BOTH axle u-joints when the ball joints are done. both u-joints likely have the same miles and wear on them.

I understand the broken bank. This is not a cheap undertaking. But don't let the balljoints go any longer than absolutely necessary. JMcCoy is right in what he says about the dangers.

All it takes is ONE bad part in that steering/suspension to put the whole truck at risk along with the occupants. Ball joints hold it all together and are barely/questionably adequate for these heavy trucks even when new.

I only had one detectable loose ball joint and it did not feel "too bad". But when I disassembled everything, I found the others were maybe even worse: Badly pitted and corroded part way through, bone dry, and nearly frozen. Terrible condition! Almost scary. I have seen ball joints pull apart on a truck before. You don't want that to happen ever.

Finally, all it takes is one bad component to greatly accelerate the wear on everything else, including expensive tires. Try very hard to finish what you started here, use top-quality grease, and thank yourself every time you drive a truck that feels tight and new. Have peace of mind and confidence.

What did you do about replacing your steering stabilizer after upgrading to the HD T-style crossover steering?

As a side note: A lovingly cared for Cummins Dodge will outlast more than 90% of all similarly treated girlfriends and cost less in the long run. :-laf It isn't just the money that annoys her as much as it is the time and attention you are giving to "the other woman". With the steering upgrades and repairs, you can at least count on being able to "handle" one of them.

Try explaining to her that, by her logic, you don't really "need" such a beautiful, intelligent, and exciting girlfriend, either. A cheaper-to-keep, practical, economy model that never complained would probably get the job done, but wouldn't be near as much fun to be with and be seen with for a man of such discriminating tastes as yourself. You have an eye for quality, and she and the truck are proof of that. (She will have a hard time arguing with that. )

Of course, if you take my advice about women, you might discover another benefit of the Dodge: It is quite capable of pulling or carrying a camper.

 

[hsmith]

Good work with words Scott. Your major was psychology, right? LOL

 

[pdxkid]

I did the right ujoint this summer out of necessity, on a roadtrip. I'm gonna do everything %100 this spring. I barely drive the truck, as I take my motorcycle or bicycle almost everywhere, so it will mostly sit around until it is all ready. SRath, holy cow, you got me rollin! I've often thought of words along those lines! Of course, I will simply say "yes dear" with head hung low, "you're right"... :{ oh, and about the steering stabilizer... it is off the truck now until I can get some brackets welded to the axle. that's how I understand it anyway...

 

[SRath]

You can simply use a Rancho RS5512 bracket kit, which is a bolt-on generic Dana 60 set of brackets. This ebay seller has them and the auction shows a good photo. His price is decent, but his shipping is a ripoff. Dana 60 Steering Stabilizer Bracket Jeep Ford GM Toyota : eBay Motors (item 140322066993 end time Feb-14-10 09:19:12 PST)



I believe you would then want to use a Rancho RS5403 stabilizer with that bracket kit. Rancho RS5000 Steering Stabilizer RS5403 : eBay Motors (item 370322617464 end time Jan-21-10 18:46:48 PST)



I keep meaning to go to Summit's website and/or check if RockAuto or someone else (Geno's?) also sells both the bracket kit and the stabilizer as this is how I intend to put one on mine since I haven't yet.



Rancho also sells a dual stabilizer bracket kit for the Dana 60, I have one on my K30 Chevy. But with the trackbar on the Dodge, I'm not positive there would be enough clearance.



You can always weld the bracket to the axle if you prefer that to using the u-bolts.



This is just one suggestion. I'm sure there are other kits and ways of mounting a stabilizer.