Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) New Clutch Advice 2001.5 NV5600

[Shelby Griggs]

Well, after 229K, I think I might need a clutch and a bit of TLC on the NV5600, getting a bit hard to shift, especially when cold, so I am having a shop pull the transmission and then shipping it to Standard Transmission and Gear for them to go through it. I have every confidence that Standard will do well with the transmission, they will be adding the Power Lube Package also.



I am less sure about what to do with the clutch. I initially was thinking South Bend Clutch (1947-OK), but I am not sure after reading a number of posts here. My use is pretty much stock. I carry 8000-10000 pounds on the truck at all times and with a small cargo trailer I sometimes can reach 12K. I do a lot of highway miles, BUT also a LOT of stop and go driving while on project sites too, I don't think I need anything more than stock like operation, the truck is stock power wise and since it is at 229K, I would expect a new stock clutch to go another 200K or so. I wouldn't mind the SBC pilot bearing upgrade, BUT other than that, what is SBC going to really do for me over another stock clutch? Another possible benefit I might get from SBC is a stronger hub, I use the exhaust brake almost 100% of the time, while I am not loaded super heavy, the stronger hub of the SBC is supposed to do better with heavy EB use.



From my reading here on TDR there "might" be some drawbacks to SBC???



I have read of a couple of instances of flywheel issues where the starter had engagement issues, etc. Those might of been isolated incidents, I don't know, but in both cases a new flywheel was required AND a new starter or at least the starter drive. One disadvantage of going to an independent shop is that they don't warranty customer supplied parts, even if SBC made it right, I still am out the R&R if something goes wrong. The only SBC shop in Oregon is a three hour drive away, they have an excellent reputation, but it is much more convenient to take it to a good local shop about a mile away, not to mention the fuel cost, currently $3. 25 a gallon and going up daily.



I also am under the understanding that the SBC products make more noise? Is that true for all of their products or just the more aggressive clutches?



I really would like to support SBC as their reputation seems to be outstanding and they support the TDR, BUT I want essentially stock pedal feel or better AND stock noise level or better, is that going to be the case with a 1947-OK kit from SBC? Cost isn't too much of a consideration, the 1947-OK seems to be within in the price range of both ordering from Dodge or an independent clutch warehouse that sells Luk products.



I need to make the decision fairly quickly, the truck goes in for surgery Monday morning and I have to select the clutch and get it here before the transmission gets back, any advice from the TDR members will be greatly appreciated.



SHG

 

[Midnite]

I'm not sure what the 1947-OK is (maybe the Con O?), but from what you say it sounds like the Con OFE would be the one I'd choose. With their hydraulics, the pedal is lighter than stock, and the lining on the OFE makes for nice smooth engagement. I have a Con FE in my truck and it's slightly grabbier than stock. Still, I had no difficulty pulling my brother's 10,000 Lb. boat.

In the HO, it doesn't take much more power than stock to toast the clutch, especially in towing situations. If you have any intention at all of adding a box or new injectors I'd strongly recommend getting more clutch than you think you need so that you have room for more power later on.

You ought to just call South Bend and talk to them and see what they're recommendation would be.

Mike

 

[jhoughton]

I have had the Con OFE on my truck for some time. It is power enhansed and I do pull a trailer often. It usually weighs in around 10k but have pulled as heavy as 18K and it held everything I gave it. I don't notice any more grab than usual with the stock setup. However I did on more than one occasion slip the stock clutch. As far as starter issues if you have an HO engine it should already have the required shim for the flywheel. If you were to get an older flywheel as mine is the shim is not used and have no starter issues. I would and will do SBC again if the need arises. An excellent product and have had no issue and still using original stock hydraulics too.

 

[SWC]

I would recommend SB. I haven't priced Dodge stuff lately but when I did I thought SB was priced better plus you get a better clutch. I just replaced a Con FE with a Con OFE. This job started out as checking the pilot bearing as in the last 2 months I noticed a little noise when I pushed in the clutch. I should have put in the OFE from the start. I don't believe there is much difference in the price.

The flywheel needed to be resurfaced so I got a new flywheel and clutch. I have not noticed any unusual sounds when starting. When I got the flywheel I got it with the bigger pilot bearing so that issue is taken care of as well.

As Midnite suggested give Southbend a call.

Stan

 

[Shelby Griggs]

Thanks for the replies. I have talked to SBC (should have mentioned that in the original post), they recommended the organic clutch, which is the CON-O, the K just designates with new flywheel, it is $100 less to buy them as a set than separately, thus the -OK kit designation.



I was just wanting to get members opinions on noise, engagement feel, etc. with the CON-O vs. stock and of course was musing about whether for a stock truck if the CON-O was a better solution than an OEM clutch and/or if there were any negative tradeoffs.



SHG

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

South Bend clutches can be as smooth and noise-free as stock. It all depends on how much power you want to hold. Peter will recommend the right clutch for you, and the price will be good too.

 

[ILIANBG]

Shelby Griggs,
which clutch did you end up choosing? I am going to have to replace a pilot bearing soon (somewhat harder shifting in 1st and reverse, and recently 2nd). So I'll replace the clutch too, since the transmission is going out. I am looking into all options.
In the last issue there was a post about an entire kit including flywheel for $ 384. 23 from Perfection Clutch. I wonder if it's the same for the 2nd gen with NV5600?
Thanks for sharing.
Ilian

 

[snappy]

Go for the Con-O. It will hold better than stock. The peddle effort is less than stock. Engagement is smooth and backing up with a trailer will be easier than a stock clutch. The Con-O is not a noisy clutch either. It is a good clutch much better than stock.

 

[ILIANBG]

Thanks snappy. Yes, I do not want a noisy, hard clutch.
Ilian

 

[Shelby Griggs]

I installed the Con-O (1947-O for a 2001 6 speed) along with a new SBC fly wheel and SBC hydraulics.



Engagement is smooth, I hear/heard a slight noise on engagement, but that seems to be diminished with time. Pedal effort is about the same as stock, I don't notice a vast difference one way or the other.



I only have a few hundred miles on the truck since the install, BUT so far everything seems to be working.



If you can afford the parts, I recommend replacing every wear item or moving item when you have it apart. I replaced ALL of the hardware such as clutch fork, bolts, springs, ball stud, etc. just for peace of mind and hopefully not having to worry about anything for another 10 years, LOL. Don't forget the rear main while it is exposed.



I also had Standard Transmission and Gear go through the 6-speed, replacing anything that needed it AND doing the power lube upgrade. Bearings were still good after 229K, mostly just replaced the synchronizers.



I had ALL of the R&R done at a local shop, shipped the transmission to Texas for the rebuild and I bought all of the parts and coordinated the various suppliers.



Total cost breakdown is as follows:



Standard Transmission and Gear (rebuild and Power Lube Upgrade) = $969. 44

Transmission shipping = $245. 36 (Oregon to Texas and back)

SBC clutch and flywheel (1947-OK) = $700

Clutch shipping = $39. 14

Amsoil fluid = $77. 00

Miscellaneous parts = $100. 53

PTO cover replacement filter element = $34. 97 (includes rush shipping)

Rear main seal = $74. 35

Clutch hydraulics = $337. 00 (includes shipping)

Shop labor = 767. 57



Total Cost = $3345. 36

 

[ILIANBG]

Thanks Shelby Briggs,

very nice to read this. Very informative.

I have 107000 miles on the truck. I do not have problems, or noise with the transmission, except sometimes harder 1st and reverse, but that's all. It's been like that since new. I have changed the fluid in it about every 30~40000 miles.

I am trying to find out which clutch to pick and it looks like it would be the one you picked- the 1947 OK (the kit with flywheel and upgraded pilot bearing).

I called Perfection Clutch, and an organic (stock replacent) kit with flywheel- $ 736. 99 (Napa), and it's designed to handle stock power- no upgrades!!!

also I inquired about Valair. Their NMU 70279-01 is rated at 400HP/900 ft/lbs. , HD hub, with almost stock feel, a bit noisier, and I guess a bit more chatter (doesn't sound good)- it's $ 348. 66 + 231 (flywheel)= $ 579. 66. I do not know what type pilot bearing is used. On other forums there are a lot of negative opinions about them.

So, this is what I have found so far. It looks like the Con O might be the way to go, even though it's kind of pricey- $ 700 with the flywheel. In these times - not easy to do for me.

Where did you buy the rear main seal from? I guess I would have to do that too, just to save myself from future issue. I do not know if the transmission shop which will do the clutch, can do this. Is it hard to do? I haven't found a shop yet. One from SBC list of installers want $ 700 for labor for the clutch work, and it's a 2WD. I can't afford tha t- gotta look for another one. That's a daylight robbery, and the guy was so rude. Maybe a local shop.

Sorry for the long post, but I do not know what to do.

Ilian

 

[Shelby Griggs]

I bought the rear main from a Dodge dealer, but any Cummins dealer should be able to get that too. I believe the seal install is pretty easy and straight forward, but that is just a guess.



I usually buy Dodge parts at Mopar Parts for Dodge, Chrysler and Jeep: MoparPartsAmerica where most stuff is about 30% less than MSRP.



I would go with the SBC 1947-OK, it really is in line price wise with the other options you have listed, especially for what you get with the upgraded pilot bearing, etc.



I don't know on the labor, I thought mine was reasonable, my job actually took longer than they estimated, however I had a few extra things done like rear main, clutch hydraulics installed, etc.



I believe flat rate book was around $400 on mine, of course it will depend on shop rates, etc.



I honestly don't see you getting this done for less than about $1500 total parts and labor.



SHG

 

[DMcLeod]

I want to know how a clutch makes noise???

 

[GOTSOOT]

Loose hub springs?

 

[seafish]

Double Disc type clutches often pick-up engine harmonics and rattle in neutral or at too low rpms. SBC has a new type of DD clutch that is supposed to minimize the rattling with some sort of tabs between the discs.

 

[Shelby Griggs]

The noise I was hearing on the CON-O was kind of a high pitched sequel, I think it wa just all the new surfaces getting to know each other.



SHG

 

[ILIANBG]

I ordered the SBC 1947 ConOK!!!! I did it. Man, I already feel better, that I do not need to dig and search, and read reviews... . it takes a toll



Thanks Shelby Briggs. I ordered it from Source Automotive. I've ordered other stuff from them before and they were always nice to deal with and ask questions. I wish I lived near them in Oregon. I would have done the install at their shop. They seem very knowledgeable about it.

I got the real seal too. So, I'll do that too while the transmission is out.

Now, I have to find a good place to do it locally.

Thanks guys for all of your help.



Ilian

 

[Shelby Griggs]

Source is a good shop, BUT they were even too far for me at 3 hours away, since my truck was down while the transmission was sent out, I would of had to make at least two round trips. I did buy my new hydraulics from them.



SHG

 

[BILLUA]

To the OP...



THANK YOU FOR SPELLING ADVICE CORRECTLY!!!!!!!!

 

[moreepms]

NV 5600. Just lost mine 2001.5 HO. 150k after having dealer change all oil 4x4 front an rear end transmission an transfer 4k miles later toast.

News flash sent from AL to Dallas new case new gears and synchros. Total 1700 including shipping. Builder said low oil and I drained oil 4qts. Builder said minimum 8 eight qusrts He had a shop full of NV 5600 and he reccomeded 75W 90 in order for
Him to HONOR his warranty.

I went with clutch from Napa I trust Napa even though mine was not hurt I pull 18 +k every day

Pull top PTO bolt to add at a minimum 6 qts

Hope this helped