New EPA Engines Scare Big Trucking Firms

[WileyCoyote]

Today's Wall Street Journal (May 28, 2002) has a front page article on the buying binge by big trucking companies to purchase the last of the pre October 1 engines for their class 8 trucking fleets before the new EPA rules go into effect.



The gist of the article is that the new engine technology is so uncertain and unproven that the trucking companies do not want to take a chance on losing maintainability and efficiency with the "improvements" on the new engines.



This is what more than a few of the members here on this site are worried about with the new common rail pilot injection engine that is on its way.



Maybe we can fix it with the software. I hope so.



Harry

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

There'a no way "software" will EVER "fix" exhaust gas recirculation and a vast multitude of similar EPA dictated changes on modern diesels...



And THAT was one BIG reason I sprung for my own '02 rig - to avoid what I think is coming down the road for serious diesel users...

 

[rrausch]

These Left-wing idiots who are mandating this sort of nonsense have very little idea what the consequences are going to be from their buffoonery.

I'm sure the new engines will be worse than the old and my guess is that the trucking companies will use this to increase prices, which HOPEFULLY will make the EPA back off. It is possible, if the EPA falls on their face bigtime, it would actually help us in the long run.

 

[Cummins Corvette]

I HATE the epa. "Well... ... ... it uses twice the fuel, but it puts out 10% less harmfull emissions per gallon burned. " wtf? 10-4 on the leftwing idiots. epa... ... . lol

 

[Lurch]

A major part of the concern in the class 8 market is due to the fact that most engine builders don't even have a "certified" engine to meet the new requirements. This means in Oct they either push an inferior design out the door or pay substantial penalties to keep using current designs. There was a big write-up on this in the last issue of Landline magazine. Cummins is one of only 2 manufacturers with "certified engines. Don't have the mag handy or I'd look up the other 1.



Lurch

 

[Speedo]

Oct. 1 Diesels

EKarr is right about manufacturers paying fines for engines that

don't make the certification deadline. Some of the fines are

closing in on $10,000 per engine and from what I read very

recently the Cummins ISX was the only engine certified so far.

The comments predicting doom and gloom for diesels are the

same things I remember hearing about gas engines 30 some

years ago and now we have gas engines that are more reliable,

more powerful and much cleaner. This whole episode came about

a little earlier than originally planned after the major engine

manufacturers signed a consent decree with the EPA. Right now

it looks like Cat is looking at the fines because they don't want

to go the cooled EGR route that the majority of engines will use

to comply. Instead they want to go their own route on EGR and

they need more time to make it work right. I believe that the

future is going to see more inovations and better engines once

some of the initial hurdles are overcome.

 

[jgallentine]

What Speedo said. It was not that long ago when computer controlled fuel injected vehicles were thought to mean the end of high performance automobiles. Now we have more horsepower with fuel economy and driveability that doesn't even compare to the hot rods of the 60s and 70s.



Maybe it was premature for the manufacturers to commit to the program but I fail to believe these issues will not be overcome in the near future.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Don't overlook the fact that earlier engines could be easily worked on without fear of voided warranty or prison time, by pimply-faced high school kids with a pair of pliers and a sledgehammer - and what makes us ASSUME that significant engine advancements and improvements would/could NOT have occured by pure competition between automakers alone - WITHOUT the need for abusive and dictatorial controls of EPA?



Have we REALLY swallowed the government-inspired notion that ONLY the all-knowing and wise government is competent to "protect" us and our environment from the "uncaring and greedy" automotive industry?



WHY must we assume that only by government intervention can we expect or receive better and more efficient powerplants? And now that we are seeing "improvements" in engine efficiency, how many of us appreciate that for many intents and purposes, our engines are pretty much "off limits" as far as anything other than simple oil or coolent changes - all else MUST be done by service department "geniuses", or else warranties are voided.



Due to government intervention, much of auto maintenance has become a "spectator sport", as we helplessly watch a bunch of brain dead high school dropouts "service" our costly vehicles, frequently causing more problems than they actually fix...



Yeah - "science" is great, and we are rapidly seeing ourselves taken out of the loop as far as direct involvement in vehicle maintenance and repair is concerned...



Is this REALLY what we want?

 

[jgallentine]

Why anyone must assume anything, or what they assume, is beyond meas is what one swallows about what the government is and is not capable of doing. All I am saying is that the industry has always found a way to work within the constraints



Would free competition brought about the same results? Who knows. Current technology has resulted from EXTENSIVE investments in R&D that may or may not have been made without the mandates. (Yea you can argue that one all day, we'll never know:-{})



As far as who can work on them, times have changed. In addition to my Snap-On box full of hand tools, I now use a laptop computer as a service aid. The on-board computer systems can be tweaked for many modifications with a laptop or power programmer. Am I as versed as I would like to be in new engine technology? NO! In fact, I haven;t even gotten into programming on my Ram or my 99 Camaro. I have not had a large enough need arise yet. My toy is a 71 Corvette and those afraid of technology will probably cringe because you can't even adjust the timing on it without a laptop. I like it this way. The precise computer controll overcame many timing hurdles of the large cam I put in it. Some time in the future the car will be fuel injected requiring yet another computer interface. Since kids are now growing up with computers, I would expect this transition to be even easier for them than it has been for me.



What we think or feel about what the government is doing is a moot point outside of know the issues and vote. What is fact is that we have to learn to deal with what is coming or rebuild what we have forever. Either option is okay with me, I love my 99 Ram, 99 Camaro and 71 Corvette. Oo.

 

[Speedo]

Technology

Most of the improvements have come about because of EPA

mandates. The manufacturers have done more than EPA

requirements though. The EPA doesn't mandate performance

and driveability, those things are market driven. Because the

manufacturers want to sell a product they had to spend more

on R&D to be able to comply and they took what they had

learned during R&D and kept moving forward to the point that

R&D is now such an integrated part of the manufacturing process

that we expect to see regular increases in the way our vehicles

perform, feel and protect us. When we first started to run leaner

mixtures to cut emissions we needed to have a hotter spark and

now instead of having to replace points, condenser and plugs at

10,000 miles a tune up now comes at 100,000 miles. Some of

these things would have happened by way of progress but

the issue was forced by EPA. While I don't government deciding

what has to be done it has to be there because there isn't

enough personal responsibility to make things work without it.

 

[WileyCoyote]

EPA Work

The fact that Cat does not yet have a certified engine after all this time should set off alarm bells. Cat and Cummins are the premier diesel engine builders in the world and Cat has has not yet been able to build an engine to their satisfaction that meets all requirements. j Cummins was very late with their engine given the time allotted.



This is a very heavy statement about how difficult the task must be. I would not underestimate the problems based on how the manufacturers have responded.



TI think there is more here than meets the immediate eye.



Harry