Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) new head gasket and now coolant in oil...why?

[NBowlin]

if you didnt pick it up in the other thread i blew a head gasket, had a hell of a time getting my head resurphaced and new orings pressed in it by the icelandic machine shop, broke the dipstick handle and the stick retreated as far down as it could, didnt receive all the head bolts from the cummins guy in the city, spent 3 days figuring out why i had no fuel to the pump... .

get all that sorted out get it started and warming up for the second torque, and what freakin happens the oil starts going milky on the valves.



why on earth other than to try and make me mad would i have water/coolant in my oil after a new resurface job, new head gasket and a good torquing?



some one help me out here. that was a 130 bucks worth of oil alone wasted not to mention the 230 bucks i have to pay for the head gasket.

 

[BLujan]

I would maybe take a look at your oil cooler. You may not have had a blown head gasket. My friends oil cooler developed a pinhole leak that took his 12v out.

 

[TrqMonster]

Is it possible that the head could be cracked? Did you get it checked when it was resurfaced?

 

[NBowlin]

no issues with the head prior to this at all. its a pdr stage 2 that has oh 15k on it. unless the machine shop bumbed it up.



the only thing sticking in my head is the extra protrusion on the orings didnt allow the head to seat with the initial torque, but i talked to Piers about the extra and he still said torque it to factory specs.

 

[ronco]

NBowlin,



Your post stated the oil on the valves got milky looking. Did you warm the engine up before you were to torque the head? I'm not saying you should or should not warm it up, I'm just asking. I have heard instances where a cold engine was cranked for a short period of time and then shut off. The valve covers were removed for something, and the owner noticed milky oil. A reasonable explanation can be that the normal moisture within everyones engine was not "cooked off" yet. Have you pulled the dipstick to see if the oil in the crankcase is also milky? If it is, then you have a problem. If not, you simply did not run the engine long enough to cook the moisture out of the oil. HTH





Ronco

 

[NBowlin]

dip stick is the same. i torqued it cold and then i was starting it to get it warm to torque it again. i think the head just didnt seat all the way cause of the o-rings. its the only thing i can think of. so i am going to buy a crap ton of cheap oil and and run it thru her till i have some semblance of normal again. retorque it and see if i can keep everything seperate. if it dont i will pull the head again. but i wanna try and get it warm and torque it down and see before i go buy another gasket and pull that off again.

 

[Andy Redmond]

Pressure test the radiator and coolant system to ck. for leaks. Does it hold pressure?



If so, maybe the oil was just milky from prior contamination when your problems began. You are on the right track to change the oil and filter, if so.



I changed a head on one about two years ago, that was in sad shape (cooling system). The oil cooler gaskets are of a tin construction with fiber/rubber sealing material applied to each side. In my example, they were rusted through in places and the cooler had severe external corrosion and was seeping too. The head gasket too was bad as it had internal and external leaking. The head was warped beyond re-decking and the valve seats were badly cracked on most cylinders, which required replacement of the cylinder head.



The oil cooler comes off far easier than the head. Remove oil filter and alternator (for better access), drain the oil and coolant and remove the fasteners. The cooler will look like a heat exchanger, you could likely rig up some piping and pres. test the oil cooler to 40-60 psi (rad. repair shop may need to jump in here). A good hand with bronze or solder could likely perform a minor repair as necessary, as parts availablity may be spotty in your country. US retail for the cooler and gaskets +/- $400





If it won't hold pressure, start troubleshooting where the leak is. Joe Donnelly often recommends removing the injectors and pressure testing and peering into each cylinder to find "your internal" leak is as applicable. Do a search on his posts for more reading on this. . You are also getting excellent advice from Piers, he's certainly a well respected guru.



Let us know what it turned out to be

Good luck

Andy

 

[1dslram]

If you torqued to the stock spec's I hope that is with new stock bolts if you reused the old bolts that could be your problem the stock bolts should be replaced each time. I suggest that studs are the only way to go, but be sure to follow the instructions that come with the studs, I like the ARP studs best but Haselys are very good also. DO NOT use the stock touque spec's for the studs.

Bruce

 

[NBowlin]

yeah i used a new set of head bolts i had in my center console..... figured it was only a matter of time



i did order studs a little over 7 weeks ago. our wonderful postal service is seeing to it, i am sure, that i get them in a timely manner.



i talked to Piers yesterday and he was thinking i should drain and flush and retorque one more time before i go and pull the head again. as well a a pressure check of the radiator to see if that is the problem. so that is what i am going to try and do thursday.



any tricks to getting that crap out of my motor. the watered down oil that is.

 

[BPonci]

When they resurfaced the head did they recut the o-ring groves? Maybe you could have too much o-ring protrusion. For engine cleaning you can run 2qts of resolon cleaner. I get mine through Napa.

 

[NBowlin]

Mr Ponci,

they didnt recut the grooves. i started with 10-11thou and i have a slight variance(sp) 13-15thou on the orings now. Piers said its more than they run but i could get away with it.



there is no napa over here. they have bilanaust i doubt they will have it by name, so if you could tell me what it is more or less so when i talk to them i can try and explain it. thanks

 

[Andy Redmond]

A motor flush? Solder Seal / Gunk/ Radiator Specialty companies make one in the USA called "Motor Flush. " I would follow the instructions judically. Most of the time they are added to some/ all of the engine oil and the engine is idled for a specified time, then the oil is drained etc. . A revered engine builder I know uses diesel fuel for this and lets it run only a few seconds, for several sessions, then drains oil. (Antique and stored cars to loosen sticky rings, carbon etc). I would not recommend method two.



In my previous post, the truck I mentioned had "white food service" grease like goo (or a water and oil mixture about 2 inches deep in the valve covers). I washed them in the parts washer, wiped the push rods down, flushed radiator and the replaced the oil cooler, so only a bit was left in the block. After I completed work, it sat and idled for 20 or 30 minutes. After it cooled for a 1/2 hr or so, I went on a gentle test drive for a mile or so. Upon return the oil was drained and the filter changed. I let the oil drip from the pan for a long time, maybe a couple of hours. Plug in, new oil and filter and more idling and a test drive. No noticeable goo in valve covers when removed or on the dipstick. After it cooled down the ps tester held pressure for 8 hrs, until it was removed to return the truck to its owner.



Good luck and lets hope its residual "residue. "

Andy

 

[NBowlin]

incase anyone cares to know what the deal was... .



defective torque wrench, and my retarded self for leaving the radiator cap on. the bolts were all over the place. i used an old dial type snapon T-wrench. i went back thru and line torqued it, so i could see if i could get away with not swapping in another HG. flushed out the crappy oil. it never contaminated the radiator, and it was jsut the residual in the motor its self coolant wise that got into the oil, so not that bad. pressure checked the radiator like Mr Piers said and it held fine after it was retorqued. so all is well SO FAR. ran out of time so i will put it together tomorrow.



thanks to everyone who helped out.