New low sulfur fuel

[Jeremiah]

Not sure this is the right forum for this, but thought I'd ask what impact the new low sulfur fuel is or will have on 3rd gen mileage and power. I understand that is all that will be available soon. BTW, I searched the forums for "low sulfur fuel" before posting this.

 

[BHolm]

My understanding is that CA has been selling the low sulfer stuff for some time now. If there were major problems, in the short run at least, we would already know about them. There are tons of 3rd gens in CA running it already.

 

[Jeremiah]

Thanks for the reply. I understand the requirement will be nationwide later this year.

 

[cerberusiam]

The whole country, not just CA, has been running on low sulphur diesel for several years. The switch over that is being implemented thru 2009 is taking the sulphur content from 500 ppm (LSD) to 15 ppm (ULSD).



The ULSD is a big question mark as it has NOT been extensively tested. The refining process to reduce the fuel to 15 ppm sulphur also reduce aromatics that seals react with to provide sealing and reduces the lubricating ability of the fuel.



Even though the consumers have been assured that additives will used to supplement what has been lost, there is no guarantee it will enough to offset the change. Only time will tell if the propoganda is correct or just anoth bunch of spin.



Every time fuel changes and new things are demanded by the EPA we end up with unknown and unforseen issues. I don't expect this change to be any different.

 

[RVTRKN]

Cerberusiam, I'm on this thread to find out if we were to use Marvel Mystery Oil, which I have used for cleaning my fuel system in my gassers, would it help this condition in every tank of diesel in my CTD?

 

[RustyJC]

Take a look HERE for some FAQs regarding ULSD.



Rusty

 

[RVTRKN]

I read the link on the properties and I did get the clause about no guaranty of lubrication. Will MMO work in every tank as a precaution?

 

[RustyJC]

If I were looking strictly at improving lubricity, I'd be tempted to add a quart or so of ashless 2-cycle engine oil per tank. This oil is formulated to burn cleanly while providing lubrication.



JM2CW



Rusty

 

[RVTRKN]

If I were looking strictly at improving lubricity, I'd be tempted to add a quart or so of ashless 2-cycle engine oil per tank. This oil is formulated to burn cleanly while providing lubrication.



JM2CW



Rusty

Would that cause gumming in the slower movement of fuel areas?I have been using MMO for 20 years and have not had issues. MMO is also a great 10wt oil for lubing small mechanical moving parts I used to use in the Bowling machines.

 

[RustyJC]

We're talking about a fuel-to-oil ratio of 140:1 (35 gallon tank), so the 2-cycle engine oil is so diluted that its higher viscosity isn't going to be a problem



I'm probably one of the few individuals on this forum who is old enough to remember that Marvel Mystery Oil was highly touted back when hydraulic lifters came onto the scene and the available motor oils were not nearly as sophisticated vis-a-vis additive packages as those available today. One of Marvel Mystery Oil's uses was to unstick hydraulic lifters - it did this with (among other ingredients) Stoddard solvent - see HERE. If I'm looking for lubricity, I don't think I want to run a solvent through my fuel system.



Again, JMHO



Rusty

 

[RVTRKN]

We're talking about a fuel-to-oil ratio of 140:1 (35 gallon tank), so the 2-cycle engine oil is so diluted that its higher viscosity isn't going to be a problem



I'm probably one of the few individuals on this forum who is old enough to remember that Marvel Mystery Oil was highly touted back when hydraulic lifters came onto the scene and the available motor oils were not nearly as sophisticated vis-a-vis additive packages as those available today. One of Marvel Mystery Oil's uses was to unstick hydraulic lifters - it did this with (among other ingredients) Stoddard solvent - see HERE. If I'm looking for lubricity, I don't think I want to run a solvent through my fuel system.



Again, JMHO



Rusty

Great link! That is why I used it in Gassers, to clean the fuel systems. Are their other additives besides 2 cycle oil, perhaps a sulfur additive?

 

[GWBourne]

they just started filling the tanks here on base with ULSD. i filled up from empty yesterday. i noticed today on the way to work and driving around base that my mileage is up if im not on it. i will do a hand calc when this tank is empty. i also noticed it doesnt smell like diesel... . not near as much anyway.



grant

 

[RustyJC]

Great link! That is why I used it in Gassers, to clean the fuel systems. Are their other additives besides 2 cycle oil, perhaps a sulfur additive?

Actually, sulfur isn't a lubricant - it's bad stuff (think sulfuric acid). The refining process that removes the sulfur also removes more of the aromatics in diesel fuel, and the aromatics provide lubricating qualities. So, to improve lubricity, you want to supplement for the missing aromatics, not the lower sulfur.



Rusty

 

[RVTRKN]

Actually, sulfur isn't a lubricant - it's bad stuff (think sulfuric acid). The refining process that removes the sulfur also removes more of the aromatics in diesel fuel, and the aromatics provide lubricating qualities. So, to improve lubricity, you want to supplement for the missing aromatics, not the lower sulfur.



Rusty

First, I would like thank GWBourne for your service to our country. Go Army. Hey Rusty, wont the MMO (solvents) soften up seals helping lubrication

 

[RustyJC]

Remember when synthetic engine oil came out? Everyone complained of seal and gasket leaks. The problem was that synthetic oil base stock doesn't have the aromatic constituents of "dino" oil, and the aromatics acted as "seal swellers". Therefore, when the first synthetic oils were put into an engine, the seals and gaskets would dry up, harden and shrink with no aromatics present. The manufacturers learned a lesson and modified their additive package to include a "seal sweller".



There's every possibility that the lighter ends in MMO certainly could be beneficial in this regard. It sounds like everyone's playing the "wait and see" game regarding the magnitude of any seal problems when S15 hits the market.



Rusty

 

[RVTRKN]

Rusty you must be a TEXAS oilman, you have great knowledge on oil products. Would you use MMO for fuel system cleaning intermittently on your CTD and Dodge has an additive they put in my system at last oil change, for lubrication, do you know of it.

 

[RustyJC]

Actually, I have worked for an industrial engine and compressor manufacturer for the last 32+ years, and most of our products are sold to the oil and natural gas industry. 27+ years of my service have been in technical management capacities, and lubrication of our equipment has been a topic I've dealt with quite often.



When I changed out my injectors to DD2s at 16K miles, the stock injectors looked like new. No carbon buildup on the tips at all. I saw no evidence of buildup in the fuel system at that time, either. I've used Power Service (white bottle) off and on since the truck was new (I took delivery 8/15/01) and am still on my original lift and injection pumps. I've never run MMO and, based on what I've seen in my truck, see no need to in the future. Would it hurt to use it occasionally? Probably not.



Rusty

 

[Diesel Power]

i think that additive sales will go way up after the introduction of this fuel

 

[cerberusiam]

Rusty you must be a TEXAS oilman

:-laf :-laf





If you can work the truck enough the MMO is probably not needed very often. I run a 1/3 MMO 2/3 PS mix 10 oz per fill up. I use the MMO to keep the injectors clean as my truck spends way too much time commuting instead of working. I ran the same mixture in my 92 for 100k and when I swapped injectors at 250k they were in very good shape. So far the 05 has 40k and no problems with injectors. CP3 was replace last winter as it developed the annoying leak in cold weather. Depending on the fuel I use the 05 is holding 9 psi to 12 psi fuel pressure at the CP3 and it won't pull under 8 psi. I average 20 mpg at 70 mph and normal driving, around 17 mpg in town.



As some one mentioned earlier an ashless 2 stroke oil is supposed to be good for lube. Thirty weight non-detergent oil is also a good additive. I intend to start mixing the 30 wt oil with PS/MMO until some time has been put on the new ULSD.



It all boils down to what you are comfortable with. Heck, one of the guys in 1st gen forum is running his truck on 40% used ATF and has been for several hundred k with no problems. I would be really uncomfortable doing that bit it works for him.

 

[RVTRKN]

Rusty you must be a TEXAS oilman

:-laf :-laf





I run a 1/3 MMO 2/3 PS mix 10 oz per fill up.

30 wt oil with PS/MMO until some time has been put on the new ULSD.



:

Is PS power steering fluid and is it mixed into the 10oz dose, doesn't seem to be enough? I like the idea of ashless 2 cycle oil with MMO because it is designed to be burned. What is your opinion on that, lets say 1 part MMO to 10 parts ashless oil with 1qt per fill up, which equates to roughly 1qt per 30gal? What do you think of that Rusty?