New MBR. First pump failure - HELP!!

[lsenus]

Hello to all. I'm obviously new to the site. I found this site after losing my lift pump on Wed. (89000mi) What a wealth of information! I'm sure you can help solve my dilema.

I've read and read and read all about the dreaded lift pump. I was up 'till 3 this morning reading posts.

Wed. I started out of the parking lot at work, then, nothing. It seemed like it was running on 3 cylinders. It only ran like this for about 3 minutes while I turned around and got it back into the lot and waited for a tow.

Thanks to this site I was able to get the correct and new edition of the pump and harness from a Freightliner dealer for $140. The removal/replace was straight forward enough, just a little cramped kneeling on the valve cover. I changed the fuel filter just in case the pump let go of something. I also bled all the lines sequentially from the lift pump to the injector pump.

Sounds good so far right?

Well. Then it wouldn't start. I bled the lines again, no air came out anywhere. Should start right? Nope.

I then read some more and found some tricks here. I tried starting it again and got it going, about like it was on Wed. night. I tried the WD 40 trick I found here, and that helped a little. It ran rough for about 4 minutes, and then started to smooth out and approach something close to normal. Then it died.

I haven't been able to get it to restart since.

I read today, while waiting for my membership and acct. info that a gas soaked rag might help?? Really? I'm willing to try just about anything at this point.

I apologize for the long post, but I fugured I'd give as much info as I could to help the thought process out.

 

[lsenus]

It seems my signature didn't show up. Here's the info:

Built 2/99 2500 SLT Quad-Cab LB 5SP 4x4. 4. 10 gears NO drivetrain modifications yet, well the new lift pump. Draw-Tite fold-away Gooseneck ball hitch.

 

[777 MECHANIC]

Did you bump the key and see if your actually hearing your new lift pump running?

 

[EricBu12]

You are getting preassure at the lines right? I would do a bump of the starter and right away, see if you can bleed the shrader valve a bit, if that is ok, then do the bump starter about 3 more times. someone also said you can crack the injector lines like 1 and 3 and then it will start. You might want to get a low PSi Like 7 psi Carter Fuel pump to put back by the fuel tank.



At 89,000 miles, I bet the injector pump was pulling the fuel for a long time and I bet it is worn out. You might want to take it to the dealer to have them check it out and replace it under warranty if needed.

I have the 7# Carter pusher pump with a 30 micron sediment filter before it back by the tank and a replacement 15# Carter Lift pump. I did all this at 23,000 miles so my pumps are good. I noticed even at that low miles, I was able to get 2 PSI more boost with the pusher pump.

Sounds like you did everything right as dar as pumps go but I imagine you need to replace that $2500 injector pump (yes thats how much they are ) So get it under warranty.

Hope this helps



ERic

 

[lsenus]

I'm sorry I didn't mention it. I did bump the starter 3 times, on several different tries. I am getting fuel to the inlet of the injector pump. I cracked the line there and had fuel flowing out. I did hear the new pump running when I bumped it. First it would run for about 3-5 seconds with the key in the on position, then about 20-30 seconds after the bump.

I did hear the pump run every morning, including Weds. morning when I fire the truck. I even heard it run when I fired it up to leave work Weds. night just before all this happened.

I'll try cracking the high presure lines at the head for the 1st 3 cylinders and bumping the starter. Hopefully I'll see fuel come from there.

I also read in another archived post, I think, that I should try to start the truck with WOT and the lift pump unplugged to see if the VP44 is alive and well. From what I gather, It should suck fuel even without the lift pump connected, and start to run a little. Then reconnect the lift pump and see what happens.

I hope the VP 44 didn't die. If it did, I wonder if the dealer in Flemington, NJ will give me a hard time because I changed the lift pump.

 

[lsenus]

OK. I primed the system with the pump with the key in the on position. Then I pulled the pump wire and tried to start it. Nope.

I then primed the system again, pump ran for about 20-30 secs. with the key on, loosened #1 and #3 injector lines and cranked the motor. Nada! No fuel coming out.

Then I tightened them to 28 Lb-ft. I tried the gas soaked rag trick. It almost caught, but again, Nada.

The lift pump runs for about 3-5 seconds when the key is turned on, then stops, I guess when it reaches pressure. Then I try to start the truck, spinning it for about 10 seconds. Stop, and the pump then runs about 20-30 secs.

After I tried the rag thing, I did notice a smell of unburned fuel coming from the tailpipe. I had to get right down next to the pipe, but I did smell it.

Anybody in the Western NJ area wants to take a look, let me know.

 

[dmurdock]

Are you sure that your lift pump hasn't been out for a while and the not starting is due to a dead injector pump?

 

[LSMITH]

If it ran for a couple minutes right after you put the new pump on the injection pump and lines are clear of air. Bleeding any more is pointless. Sorry to say but I think it is time to call the dealer. You could take it to Cummins on your own dime, but you will not be reimbursed for anything even if it should be covered by the warranty. The engine is covered to 100K miles, and the injection pump is included.

 

[Pit Bull]

Call the tow truck I'll bet you have a dead VP44. Take it to the dealer it is covered under your 5 year 100K warranty. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[lsenus]

I'd have bet my life that I heard the pump every time I started the truck. In fact I'd alsways wait 'till it stopped before I started the truck.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions. We, the fiance' or finance as I call her, went to a local tavern for dinner just now. The bar owner said there is a guy about 3 miles away that does diesel work on farm tractors. I'm going to stop by his place tomorrow and see if he has any diag equip and some time to look at it, but I fear you all are right. Dead Bosch. How come they can put a pump in a gasoline tank, but not in a diesel tank!?

I'll keep ya' posted on the outcome, and now I've found this site, I'll be around and posting.

Thanks again for all the help and suggestions.



Just a thought, what's the new common rail system like, and can it be retrofitted?? just thinking.

 

[LSMITH]

Just so you know, hearing the pump does not mean anything at all. Even when dead (no pressure) you can hear them turn. Don't let that be your guide, check pressures regularly or install a full time gauge for fuel pressure.

 

[CumminsPuller]

Thats exactly what happened to mine... ..... I could hear th pum run... . nice and strong... ..... Had no pressure... ... ... . bought a new pump from cummins for 147. 00... ... ... . works like a champ.



Jason

 

[lsenus]

My fiance' and I show Jumping horses nearly every weekend.

I would have thought I would have seen some performance degradation while towing GN trailers ranging between 8000-15000 lbs with horses and riding tack every weekend over the last few years.



About the pumps. Is it a volume problem? Pump design? Location? All of the above?

Instead of electric pumps, how about belt drive pumps? I know they are a little more expensive, but at least the flow rate increases with engine RPMs. Pressure to the filter->VP44 lines could be regulated.

What do the Top Fuel cars in NHRA use to supply those monsterous engines?

Again, just thinking. I know, I know. That can be dangerous.

 

[CumminsPuller]

Isenus... ... I never saw a performance loss..... I bet you I drove atleast 30,000 miles with a bad lift pump. And all of that was pulling a 40 foot GN between 8,000-30,000lbs. I felt the same way you did..... Just be glad you and I had a strong injection pump. Would hate to have to replace one of those. Would be a PITA and hurt the old wallet.



Jason

 

[thendrex]

pump failure

A couple of weeks ago I had to spend $1400 at Cummins to get a new VP44. Mine too was due to the "transfer pump" as they call it or the lift pump. He said I was lucky cause my truck had the cheap $900 pump on it. The rest was labor. Enjoy that warranty!

 

[CumminsPuller]

Threndex... ..... In your opinion would we be able to replace the pump the VP44 ourselves..... or is it to difficult?



Jason

 

[thendrex]

pump failure

I wish I would have done mine myself, but not being familiar with the Cummins computer controlled stuff I wasn't sure at the time if it was a computer problem or an injection pump failure. I've had other items go out before on this engine and couldnt diagnose it because of this. It was also a thing too where it was already there and I needed it for work, so I told them to do it. I think as long as you find the timing marks in the front cover, it shouldnt be too bad. I'm sure it would be a long task to do, but I believe it can be done. Wouldn't hurt to have that factory servive manual in front of you either.

 

[lsenus]

I called the dealer in Flemington, NJ and setup an "emergency" service call for monday. The tow bill shouldn't be bad, its only about 18 miles to the dealer. I guess I'll also put the old, dead lift pump back in and get that replaced under warranty and keep the new one as a spare. No sense in having a good pump to confuse the issue.

 

[TowPro]

I read your getting ready to get it towed, but try this.



Tighten up everything, if you have a fuel pressure gauge in line (with a hose) remove it. (the air in the line can prevent the system from priming its self.



Turn the key to On, then "bump" it to start (don't crank it long, just bump it), then release the key back to run. the pump will run about 20-30 sec.



Do that about 15 times. Now with foot off the fuel pedel, crank it. Did it start?



If not, remove the rubber inlet hose and see if the O ring in the fitting is bad. Also maybe you may have lost a sealing washer on the inlet pipe side of the lift pump.



Sure hate to see them get towed.

 

[lsenus]

No luck on getting it started. I put the old pump back in, and got the truck turned around in the driveway with the tractor to pull it. I hate to see them on the hook too. Especially since most tow trucks seem to be Fords.

I also checked in the links area and saw a site that had the Aeroquip fitting and hose setup. That will be ordered on Monday AM. NO MORE BANJO WASHERS!!! I dropped one putting the old pump back in and spent 45 minutes looking for the thing. It had gotten stuck to the side of the block behind the starter.

I'll let everone here know how the dealer in town rates for service and knowledge, just in case anyone's in the area and needs service in a hurry.