Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) ? new pump timing procedure

[pwknapp]

A newly addicted bomber talked to someone at PDR today. PDR said they use a "newer procedure" for timing the pump involving some degree tape on the harmonic balancer, etc. I searched the PDR website where the procedure is supposedly written and can not find it. Can any of you direct me to the written procedure?



Thanks, Paul

 

[Highfinance97]

You said a NEW procedure, so your not talking about this are you??





P7100 Timing





Michael

 

[wildmanben]

I think he is talking about the method that Jim Fulmer uses. He posted it a while back I think. Hopefully he will chime in about it.

 

[Bandit1]

it is an equation that will allow you to adjust timing per a standard measurement once you find TDC (very important that you are at true TDC, right jim) jim can just spit out the equation so i will let him chime in, i have it in the truck if someone wants it sooner. josh

 

[wildmanben]

I wouldnt mind the info, I would like to find the true timing for the amount of lift above 16* Seems like some people say its this and others is that. So I would like to compare both to get a true reading and then make a chart of it.

 

[wildmanben]

any news on this yet?

 

[MRector]

I would also like to know about this

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Bump... ... . till I get the time to write it out, or find were I have before.



Jim

 

[wildmanben]

the crank spins 2 revolutions for every 1 revolution of the cam. so I would assume 2?

 

[Joe G.]

Timeing is in relation to crankshaft degrees before or after TDC.

 

[Joe G.]

I think we are off the track a little bit here. Finding the correct place on the crank pulley is one thing. A little bit of math and a flexible ruler will find that point pretty easy.



Setting the pump so the injection event occurs at that point is another. The timing procedure in the service manual uses plunger lift to establish the injection point. That method requires no degree marks on the crank pulley. Only a mark for TCD. Has PDR come up with some other way to determine when injection occurs?

 

[Bob4x4]

Spill port... ... . not new?

 

[RonA]

Sorry Joe.

I took my posts out so you guys can get back on track. I go off the chart with timing sometimes and the extending the numbers is not always correct.

Ron

 

[JFaughn]

I remember some yrs. ago doing a MBZ and one of the special tools was a short u shaped tube with a sharp angle cut on the end , with the nut to hold it in the #1 pos. of the pump ,
and while you turned the eng. / pump to #1 cyl. it should just start dripping ,
Now thats unlike every other bosch pump I've timed , with the gauge holder , the gauge holder method never impressed me as being right on [ even though yould think so being that the gauge is measuring the small amounts that they are ].
Then with my latest repair , lift pump & overflow valve , talking to Marty Tompkins at Precission Diesel and Turbo [ thats where I got the parts ] he mentioned a simular menthod , now I'm trying to find that in printable copy also .

 

[Dan_69GTX]

A while ago I did a FAQ regarding pump timing - combing a LOT of info provided by other people.



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96154

 

[wildmanben]

Found this in one of Jims posts:

It's either slipping as stated above or it's moving when you pop the gear back off. Hence the reason most of us pin the pump and back the motor up to advance the timing. If you want after that you can use your indicator to double check your specs.



Timing is not as particular as most people think, now having said that i don't mean there is no difference in 15 and 20 degrees. The is no noticeable difference or very little between 15 and 16. The math formula is dia of balancer x pie (3. 1416) divided by 360 x the number of degrees you want to advance. Pin the pump at it's TDC, the degrees of timing is marked on the plaque, pop the gear off and back the motor up the distance the calculator gives you in the math formula. Clean the shaft off with brake cleaner or contact cleaner the install the gear with a NEW lock washer. Tighten it some but not allot... . say 30-40 lbs (remember the pump is still pinned with a PLASTIC pin) this will keep the pump from changing the timing you set. Now unpin the pump and finish tightening the nut. I've probably do it this way 50 times over the years.



Caution: If for any reason you mess up and break that plastic pin off inside the pump, you will pull the pump to fish the pieces out... ..... I've done this!



Jim

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Dang you beat me to it. I just typed this up in word. Hope this helps, it's a little more in-depth.





The new or old school way of setting or adjusting timing is as follows:



Find TDC using the drop valve method. I pull #1 valve cover and turn the motor over backwards till I see #1 intake valve opening, then I loosen the exhaust valve adjuster and tighten it down to zero lash and give it 2 ½ turns or rounds. Then I turn the motor over in the normal rotation till the piston tags the valve, with a TDC pointer in place and pointing to the balancer I make a mark on it. Then I loosen the exhaust valve and turn the motor say ¼ turn past the first mark going in the normal rotation. Then I tighten the exhaust valve adjuster the same amount as I did the first time so the relation is the same, once this is done I turn the motor over backwards via the alternator till the piston hits the valve once again. Now make another mark as you did the first time. What you did was find a relationship between either sides of the upstroke, now with the two marks made measure the distance and divide it. That is you TDC of the motor and gives you something to go by.



Now to the pump: A pump timing based on lift is set of the pump stand and that’s were the pin is installed; this is on the placard for the engine identification. Marked at 13, 14 ect. So what I do is break the T/Q on the pump nut and with the motor past TDC (normal rotation) I then pull the pump pin out and with a light and mirror back the motor up till I see the pump pin and install the pin. Now the pump is at TDC and the motor should be if it was set correctly, from there I pop the pump gear off and back the motor up from underneath the truck to advance the timing. This is a mathematical equation by taking the Balancer diameter X 3. 1416 divided by 360 then times the number of degrees you want to advance the timing. An example is a 9. 25 diameter balancer X 3. 1416 divided by 360 times 4 degrees advanced on timing gives you . 322 or a tad over 3 tenth’s of an inch…. . that is how much you want to back the motor up from your TDC mark. Then clean your pump shaft off with brake or electrical cleaner and install a new lock washer and the pump nut. Tighten the pump nut slightly so the pump doesn’t move and pull the pump pin out and install it back in the cap then install it back in the pump. Now tighten the pump nut to 144 lbs (Cummins spec) I use 160, when your doing this have your ratchet on the alternator nut so you have something to hold the motor in place…. . opposing forces then put everything back together. If you so choose to use the dial indicator method or spill port method have fun with it. Timing is not rocket science and I have done it this way many times.



Jim

 

[wildmanben]

Thanks a ton Jim, I have learned a lot by reading your posts!

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Thanks a ton Jim, I have learned a lot by reading your posts!

NP, just wish I could type as fast as I think. It's one of those things to teach but not while your doing it.



Jim

 

[pwknapp]

Thanks Jim, the standard dial indicator method was just not working on the setup I have.



Paul