New Ramifier...Code set off.........

[SSnider]

I guess I misunderstood you . " That any of the more powerfull pressure boxes would en up on the 600 " I thought you ment the Ramifier. I thought there was an earlier post where you stated th Ramifier was more than the EZ.



Steve



PS check your Email

 

[EEngel]

Rail Pressure

FenceBuilder,



Do you have the rail pressure created by the Ramifier? Could you post it?



I guess I have the understanding that "pressure" boxes have a higher PSI per HP gained.



So if the Ramifier has that much more power than the EZ, is the pressure that much higher?



Is the pressure/hp relationship linear?



Thanx,

 

[DLeno]

Guys, some of my previous posts maybe were not clear enough:



1. I never said and do not claim that Ramifier pressure is higher than EZ pressure. I only said that IF Ramifier makes MORE PEAK HP than the EZ then it HAS to make more pressrue. Thats because the EZ and the Ramifier are on equal footing and do excatly the same thing at WOT and full boost. I said that as a reality check to the Ramifier folks claiming that it is more powerful than the EZ.



2. In my opinion, Ramifier has found a free lunch that the other pressure boxes have not. This allows ramifier to make the power come in at lower RPMs. In my opinino the ramifier IS more powerful than the EZ at low RPMs ONLY.



3. consistent with #2 above, for any given RPM, if the ramifier puts out more torque than the EZ it is because it is dialing in more pressure AND it has boost fooled the ECM into lengthening injector pulse width by telling the ECM that boost is really higher than it actually is.



Here's the general basics on how these things work. The stock ECM controls fuel with timing, duration, and by changing pressure. The pressure boxes lie to the ECM, telling the ECM that pressure is low. In response to this bogus information, the ECM sends a higher pressure command to the pump.



I have a hunch that the new ECM code in the 600 includes a delta check to insure that the pressure set point is not too far out of whack with measured pressure. If that is the case, then none of these high pressure fueling boxes will work on the 600. They'll have to figure out something else, or (like the VA pressure box) HP gains are just too-bad-so-sad not as high.



I highly doubt that the pressure/HP curve is linear. fueling is a fnction of several variables and we really don't know if any of those terms are quadratic, cubic, or linear.



In general, in order to make 70 HP over stock peak HP, a pressure box has to be in the 27000 psi or above region.

 

[EEngel]

Really that hard?

Would it really be that hard for the vendors of these boxes to provide the fuel pressure data?



Is it that it's difficult for them to figure out? Or do they just want to keep us from being scared?

 

[DLeno]

nope. not difficult at all. they all know exactly where they are, pressure wise. there is no ambiguity because these boxes HAVE to read the fuel pressure sender directly. its just a pressure-to-voltage transducer with a well known (approximately linear) curve. "you tella me the a voltage, I tella you the a pressure".



they're all hiding it. seriously. its clearly understood and they just don't want you to know. all except Banks.

 

[JARichard]

Well I thought the common rail on all 3rd gen. cummins had a POP-OFF valve for when the maximum fuel pressure was exceeded. If this is true as long you dont blow the pop- off valve you are within the maximum engine fuel pressure specs. Now if that pop off valve is electrically controlled we have problem because the CHIP is fooling it too!!

So, My questions are as follows:

1. Does the fuel rail have a pop-off valve?

2. What pressure does it start to bleed at?

3. Is it mechanically or electronically controlled?

Thanks to all who reply to this. I really never thought fuel pressure would be issue with a pop-off valve in the system.

 

[DLeno]

Originally posted by JARichard

Well I thought the common rail on all 3rd gen. cummins had a POP-OFF valve for when the maximum fuel pressure was exceeded.

yup, so far you are correct

If this is true as long you dont blow the pop- off valve you are within the maximum engine fuel pressure specs.

thats not the way I see it. the pop-off is a safety device, not a spec limit, and its set point is well above the operating pressures. (about 25%). iif you exceed the set point you are at great risk for a blown rail and a dead engine that requires dealer service.

1. Does the fuel rail have a pop-off valve?

2. What pressure does it start to bleed at?

3. Is it mechanically or electronically controlled?

Thanks to all who reply to this. I really never thought fuel pressure would be issue with a pop-off valve in the system. [/B]

1. yes

2. it pops off at 2000 BAR (approximately 29,400 psi)

3. it is a "dumb" mechanical device that is pressure sensitive. when it pops, it is destructive in the sense that it either requires dealer service (replacement) or (I understand from Diesel Dynamics) it re-seats itself but becomes weaker (lower pop-off pressure point from that moment forward).



the whole falicy (in my opinion) of pressure boxes staying "within this limit" is that the only other alternative (not staying within this limit) is very unattractive

 

[1badplr]

dleno, TS has been aware the same tune does not work as well on the 04. 5 from day one. seems like one left without being reprogrammed.



by the way, the pressure valve is not called a pop-off valve but a pressure relief valve. according to the manual i bought, it may open up under normal driving conditions.

 

[DLeno]

sounds good. must have been just a fluke that the wrong one was sent out.



pressure relief, pop-off. potato, pattato