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New TDR article says 08's getting 25% LESS

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Rising Fuel Prices - Are You Driving Less?

Rudolf Diesel's Birthday.

Mileage!!! :eek: I mean at that rate and the $$$$$$$ of fuel - IMO - that will kill Diesel Pickups!!!!! I mean putting in about $120 for a fillup is FREAKING RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: In my area that would work out to 25 CENTS per mile for FUEL!!!!!!!
 
I just read Consumer Reports of all new vehicles. Their test showed the PSD 6. 4 as 10 MPG as well as being noisy, clangy etc. The Duramax and Cummins scored 13 average MPG with the Duramax winning the overall "best" deal. All three trucks were $50K plus and within $500 of each other. So like I was saying in my thread... unless you HAVE to really pull the big trailers... who's gonna be first in line get one? I can't.
 
... unless you HAVE to really pull the big trailers... who's gonna be first in line get one? I can't.
and NOBODY has to PULL a Big Trailer - I think those days are fast coming to an end for most people..... let's be honest - would you want to take your savings and invest in a Travel Trailer Manufacturing Business????? :eek:
 
Save those 12 valves boys. It ain' t over yet!

Man how I wished we could not buy gas or diesel for 2 solid weeks.

Where can I at least read about why we are getting shafted so bad on fuel prices?

I think the oil companies know the demand is about to drop over the next 3 years and are milking us. I guarantee something's up.
 
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Save those 12 valves boys. It ain' t over yet!

Man how I wished we could not buy gas or diesel for 2 solid weeks.

Where can I at least read about why we are getting shafted so bad on fuel prices?

I think the oil companies know the demand is about to drop over the next 3 years and are milking us. I guarantee something’s up.





My 97 with 190k just got 18. 5mpg..... and its winter time. So the newer diesels can't manage better fuel effiecency than that? Granted they make more power, but 10 mpg, 13mpg..... you'd be better off with a gasser, saving

5K on the initial purchase and save 50 cents a gallon... .



Someone somewhere is making a killing on this situation.



Chris
 
Thanks to TDR knowledge I spent a chunk of retirement nest egg on a pair of new 5. 9's before I needed them.



Broke them in by always keeping yard of gravel on board and now they're both up to 20. x mpg bone stock, freeway, 60-65 mph.



Lots of new 5. 9 middle trim line '06's and '07's were discounting down to 35K-36K.



Looked like a good $$$$ spend then and now.



There must still be a few deals like that for the serious frugal shopper to find.
 
Oil will go up $ wise . . not down, at least not significant... All this emission crap is jsut casueing more fuuel to be burned and more wear, more costs etc. . its not to smart. .

Oh well#@$%!
 
I dont think the fuel useage is that bad on the 08's mine gets 16 to 18 on hwy and I dont go slow either then intown it will pull 14 yeah its less then the older model's but I wont complain yet :)
 
Mileage!!! :eek: I mean at that rate and the $$$$$$$ of fuel - IMO - that will kill Diesel Pickups!!!!! I mean putting in about $120 for a fillup is FREAKING RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: In my area that would work out to 25 CENTS per mile for FUEL!!!!!!!



tell me something about ridiculous. . :{ my last fill up was 107 Litres(28,3 gal. ) and the price was 129. 90 €€ - that´s about 197 $$- Welcome to Europe :mad::mad:
 
I meant pull big trailers as in for business... heavy horse trailers, hay trailers, dump trailers, machine equipment trailers. Some guys I know make a living pulling this type of stuff, which can be heavy.



As far as travel trailers go... I'd never want to pull some of the behemoths I've seen on the road. Definately a point when you need to go motorhome. :)
 
I meant pull big trailers as in for business... heavy horse trailers, hay trailers, dump trailers, machine equipment trailers. Some guys I know make a living pulling this type of stuff, which can be heavy.



As far as travel trailers go... I'd never want to pull some of the behemoths I've seen on the road. Definately a point when you need to go motorhome. :)





you hit it on the head, thats the reason why diesel has gotten so high, driving a diesel truck has become a status symbol where I live, there are lots of guys in my neighborhood who drive lifted diesels with fancy wheels tow a ski boat to the lake a couple times in summer or maybe hook up a travel trailer once a twice a year, the rest of the time the truck tows nothing and is used to drive back and forth to their office job. that my friend has been what has ruined the diesel truck market, people that don't need them are using them as a status symbol, infact its irritating to see these sissy trucks who never pull heavy, driving up the cost of fuel that effects my lively hood
 
You can thank the EPA and the do gooders - - The EPA for poor mileage due to all the crap they demand be put on diesels yhst cods mileage - - and the do gooders for blocking all new refinery projects since the '70's.



If there was all the fuel we wanted at $20/bbl the US couldn't use it because of lack of refining capacity.



Denny
 
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You can thank the EPA and the do gooders - - The EPA for poor mileage due to all the crap they demand be put on diesels yhst cods mileage - - and the do gooders for blocking all new refinery projects since the '70's.



If there was all the fuel we wanted at $20/bbl the US couldn't use it because of lack of refining capacity.



Denny



As far as refining capacity, not true. Last week national refining capacity was only running at 83%.



They actually shut down 50 refineries back in the 90's, because in the 70's and 80's they built excess capacity - the demand for fuel turned out to be much less than what they'd predicted.



There wasn't any law preventing them from building refineries - they just didn't need to build any more at the time. Why spend the money on facilities you don't need?



As far as the EPA - I'm in full agreement with you on that one, they need a reality check.
 
Man oh man do you really want to

As far as refining capacity, not true. Last week national refining capacity was only running at 83%.



They actually shut down 50 refineries back in the 90's, because in the 70's and 80's they built excess capacity - the demand for fuel turned out to be much less than what they'd predicted.



There wasn't any law preventing them from building refineries - they just didn't need to build any more at the time. Why spend the money on facilities you don't need?



As far as the EPA - I'm in full agreement with you on that one, they need a reality check.



Disturb the troops with these inconvenient FACTS!!!!!!!
 
Both wrong - - - Check Wimington CA - State CARB refused Pure a building permit when they required the new low sulfur diesel and 83% utilization - - how many refineries are down or had fires or other problems from trying to operate at 115%?



And hamersaley - -you need to check your facts



Denny
 
Disturb the troops with these inconvenient FACTS!!!!!!!



From the response, looks like you called that one. People don't like having their favorite urban myths "busted". Makes me wonder at times why "Mythbusters" is such a hit program - you just KNOW they've ****** off quite a few people with some of their "busted" calls.



Yes, I can see how CARB denying a permit for one refinery in CA "proves" there's a vast left-wing treehugger conspiracy in the other 49 states to prevent building any more refineries for the past 30 years. Guess it's a good thing they didn't have biodiesel refineries on their hit list. :rolleyes:



Guess I just dreamed it all 10 years ago when I read in the papers and watched on the nightly news the stories about how the oil companies bought up 50 independent refineries and shut them down, and read the printed copies of e-mails between oil execs all but saying in plain English they were doing so to get rid of excess refinery capacity, to tighten supply and drive up prices.



Guess it was also part of the same hallucination when last year I watched the GAO in live testimony on CSPAN in front of the US Senate repeat the same story about how they had overbuilt capacity in the 70's, how they had shut down these 50 refineries in the 90's, and that there was no environmental or regulatory reason for these shutdowns - it was purely a business decision on the part of the oil companies.



Believe me, I'm no fan of Mary Nichols and the other whackjobs in CARB, or those with a seemingly irrational anti-diesel phobia in the EPA, Sierra Club, Union of Concerned Scientists, etc. IMHO, a lot of these people need to be given the same treatment my grandfather reserved for a stubborn mule - a pitchfork jammed firmly up their posterior, sharp end first.



Point is, us diesel drivers already have enough enemies out there and they've already pulled enough asinine regulatory crap to get called on, that there's little point in inventing stuff to accuse them of. It would just make those jerks look like the injured party when we got called on it.



As far as the refineries operating at 83% capacity - only refinery shutdown that was reported was a small FINA refinery in Texas. At the same time, crude oil inventories had went up for the 7th (now 8th) week in a row - up 30 million barrels since January - and gasoline inventories were at a 14 year high.



So why did gasoline inventories hit a 14 year high with refineries only operating at 83%? Simple - demand went DOWN. Economy's in the dumps right now, factories and businesses cutting back, manufacturing sector output (what's left) dropped like a rock last quarter, housing and new construction starts down 25 to 40%, people driving less because of higher fuel prices, etc. And that's also why the refineries were only running at 83% - little point in running your equipment full blast and wearing it out if you're just stockpiling excess inventory that could drive prices down when it reaches a certain level.
 
And thanks to your HERO - REAGAN...........

who among other things he screwed up - brought you the COMMODITIES MARKET for OIL... . THAT is what's driving up the $$$$$ along with the Devaluation of the $$$$$$ - brought to you by another Republican - BUSH! Sorry - the truth will set you FREE:-laf



Gas Prices - Pipeline - Lisa Margonelli - Oil Industry - Opinion - New York Times Blog



"The stable prices reflected a larger reality: For many years, crude oil prices were set by oil-company executives who made long-term deals with oil producers. Prices were known only to a few, and they didn't change much. In 1976, the posted price of Saudi crude oil was $12. 37 a barrel for the whole year. Without an open market for crude, the 1973 Arab oil embargo was somewhat successful in preventing oil shipments from reaching the United States.



After that shock, a crude market evolved, pushed along, according to economist Philip K. Verleger, by changes in monetary policies, deregulation and a United Kingdom tax scheme that required some stocks of North Sea oil to be sold on a daily basis. In the late '70s, the New York Mercantile Exchange began trading heating oil, and in 1983, it also began trading futures for crude oil. Other markets evolved, including the gasoline spot markets. "
 
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Not Politics But Greed

Hey, I voted for Reagan - because I thought he was a better alternative than the other person available. I don't think he was the devil incarnate, nor do I think he was the second coming - he was just the best choice at the time IMO. I'm an independent, and my politics are neither right nor left but UP - after spending 20 years of my life in the military, I just want someone who's going to do what's best for the country as a whole, not his political base. Apparently these days that's asking a heck of a lot from either party.



IMO, BOTH parties are equally culpable for the current mess with fuel prices we find ourselves in.



I don't have a problem with the open trading of oil and energy futures in a free market economy. I DO have a problem with the fact there's essentially no oversight or ground rules, allowing wide-open manipulation of market prices regardless of real-world conditions for those commodities - like the rail tycoons of the late 19th century that manipulated railroad stocks to make themselves rich, not caring that their actions caused stock market crashes and economic recessions affecting millions of people.



That's basically the same situation with oil today, except it's having a much wider effect - speculators and hedge fund managers manipulating the price of oil to make themselves and their clients rich, apparently not caring about the effect not just on this country's economy but the world economy, and in this case affecting literally billions of people.



Here's some of the latest nonsense from Wall Street -



Crude rallies to new high of $104. 56 as inventories fall - MarketWatch



$5/barrel increase in one day, because crude inventories took an unexpected dip - even though inventories are still up 25 million barrels for the year - and even though gasoline inventories went up to another 14 year high. And refineries are still operating in the mid-80's for capacity.



And notcie what they list for the reason - same reason I've seen quoted for the past few months from multiple sources - it's not supply and demand or market conditions, it speculators trying to take advantage of a weak dollar and make a killing in oil futures. And now they're moving more and more to long term positions on oil futures - in other words, now they NEED oil to stay above $100/barrel to keep from losing their shirts.



And these are essentially the same people that brought us the subprime mortgage and credit mess we're now in. If they do the same number on oil they did to the housing and credit sectors, gawd help us all.
 
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Well represented points. The double-whammy here is that the working stiffs stuck with resetting ARM's in California bought houses (long live the American Dream) in the boonies so they could afford them. SoCal is a subdivision traffic horror show. If they are lucky enough to have a good paying job (with health care coverage), they have no choice but to suck it up, drive 1-1/12 hours each way to work, and eat the higher fuel costs. Many of them are forced into high MPG roller skates, or motorcycles, to make ends meet.
 
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