Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) New Turbo Advice

[dougs455]

Looking for some advice on a new turbo. I still have my factory 35 and need to upgrade. I have lots of bombs but still stock in this dept. I have close to $3500 to spend but $2000 would be alot better. (need tires too)The HTB2 looks like a good canidate but how about twins with my 35 I already have. I can't drag race or pull with my current setup due to extreme EGT's. (can hit 1600 degrees) I dont have much to tow but it's an option I'd like to have. Any estimates on HP/TQ are appreciated. Anyone please feel free to put your $. 02 in.





'99 Quad cab 3500 sport 4x4 w/training wheels,naked- 3. 55's-5

speed-South Bend MU 13-1. 25 Con FE-BHAF-PM3 w/remote-BD5

injectors-TTPM-4"downpipe-5" to 5" stacks-no silencer-red valve

cover-Amsoil-Holly black pump w/wildcat max flow-(solid 15psi on fuel)

-Stock turbo w/elbow(not barking yet @36psi)

-gauges(oil,water,fuel,pyro,boost) heavy right foot

 

[Hohn]

With the setup you're running, you have over 450hp worth of fuel if you can burn it. TQ should be 1100+.



I'm afraid your probably overfueled for even an HTB2. If you're looking at staying with single chargers, you're in the range of PDR50 or Full B1. A USB or WSB would also work, but still run pretty hot.



As for twins with a stock 35, it can and has been done. Honestly, it's probably your best bet, cost-wise. A modified HTB3 can be had from Piers for like $500.



If you can fab the tubing for less than grand, you'll have a better setup than a single for about the same cost.



Twins with a stock 35 are going to be hard to tune, and not all that efficient, though. You'll want to at least swap housings to a 14 or 16 on the HX35. Wastegating is another issue, as the tiny built-in WG on the stock charger won't dump enough flow, thus you risk exploding your HX35.



IIRC, Jim Fulmer had his HX35/HT3B combo topped out at just over 760hp.



The problem with the stock charger is that the compressor side is too small to move the air efficiently-- it chokes the flow from the larger turbo somewhat. To best make use of this charger, I'd recommend a larger compressor side be installed, converting it to an 35/40 hybrid. High Tech Turbo does a lot of this for a reasonable price.



Remember that as you go higher up the HP ladder, you lose flexiblity in the use of the truck. There are a handful of trucks in the 600hp club that tow sorta heavy, but most of the heavy haulers stay under 500hp even with twins.



I think it's SnowMan69 who has a 12-second truck that plows all winter Maybe he'll see this and chime in...



justin

 

[Ryan]

I have actually run both a single and twins with a set up that is not to far from yours. I am running an Edge Drag Comp and BD4 injectors. I ran a baby HX55 Hybrid from JR Adkins for a few months. The set up dynoed 506/948. The truck was easy to drive on the street, a little smoky on the bottom end but it could be kept in check with propper application of the right foot. I upgraded to a set of twins from JR in April. The twins were an HX35/16 nonwastegated and a HT3B/26 nonwastegated. When the twins were installed the head was o-ringed. I made the change because I wanted to be able to tow in the 20 to 25K gross range with no concerns and not loose the use of 5th gear. The twins dynoed 505/1052. They are by far more streetable and more flexable. I towed a while back grossing 23K, I was able to leave the box on 5x5 the entire trip. I was running 75mph on the interstate and never saw the EGTs go over 1200° and the truck pulled great on the smaller 2 lane roads as well.

I would recomend giving JR a call (317-281-3130) or PMing him.



Ryan

 

[dougs455]

With the setup you're running, you have over 450hp worth of fuel if you can burn it. TQ should be 1100+.

justin

Nice... was thinking alot less. Gonna find out real #'s at Goerand Bors. Charity Dyno Event Sept. 11th.



Wasn't sure if a single would flow enough. Didn't want slow spooling issues either. So twins it is. Looks like I want to purchase a "twins kit" on "exchange basis" if I keep the 35. (Dont trust myself to assemble something that spins 130,000 rpm. ) The pipes will need to pre-fabbed also. So far it looks as if I will be upgrading my 35's housing and compressor, buying an HT3B or something similar, and 3 pc manifold with wastegate. Hope I can find something others have used in the past with no problems. Can't afford head work or cam just yet so 45-50psi is max. Does 10-15 psi make that much of a difference in EGT's? The Snow Water/Meth kit looks like an option too because my high EGT's aren't continous. Only long WOT's.

 

[Hohn]

10-15psi of additional boost might help EGT, it might hurt it!



It depends on how your getting that higher boost. You can run an HX35 at 40psi+. Does that mean EGT is under control?



Some configurations will have lower EGT at lower boost pressures while making MORE power. This is ideally what you want.



A homebrew twins setup with a 35/3B will make 45-50psi quite efficiently.



You could probably run a 35 w/16 housing and a 3B with no wastegating and have a setup good to 50psi.



There are two key ingredients in EGT, besides air:fuel ratio:

1) Pressure ratios (backpressure to boost)

2) Intake temperatures



There are the two ways you primarily exceed the stock turbo's limits; it can't make efficient boost over a certain psi, so air gets hot. After 35psi, an HX35 makes heat, not really useful boost. There's no power to gain running a 35 at 45psi vs 39 psi.



Twins work well because they break down the pressure multiplication. Instead of asking one charger to multiply pressure by 4 or 5 times, we can ask two chargers to load at 2:1 ratios. That means a lot cooler, more efficient boost.



That said, some singles are efficient at high pressure ratios-- USB and the B1 are both efficient over 50psi.



Justin

 

[Ryan]

You could probably run a 35 w/16 housing and a 3B with no wastegating and have a setup good to 50psi.



There are two key ingredients in EGT, besides air:fuel ratio:

1) Pressure ratios (backpressure to boost)

2) Intake temperatures



Justin

I was making 70 psi of boost at WOT with an HX35/16 non wastegated and an HT3B/26 non wastegated. When running down the road my IATs are around 100° depending on outside temps. When towing I have seen the intercooler remove over 200° from the charge air temp. In my one hook to a sled the IAT peaked at 157° for the hook. This is data from the set up I have ran on my truck. Not all trucks are the same.



Justin- What data are you basing you 50psi limitation on?

 

[dougs455]

Justin- What data are you basing you 50psi limitation on?

probably on MY set limit of 50 due to lack of $,000's needed for head work.

Can't afford head work or cam just yet so 45-50psi is max.

I was making 70 psi of boost at WOT with an HX35/16 non wastegated and an HT3B/26 non wastegated.

How did you have this set up? No wastegate on either turbo? I probably sound like a amature (cuz i is one) but what keeps them from spinning 650,000 rpms and puting 2 large dents in your hood? I'm really looking hard at this HX35/16 and an HT3B/26 combo. Just need as much info as possible so when I do call to purchase this setup I won't be lead onto something else overpriced and wrong for my application. I gotta keep or get some kinda wastegate for my setup due to stock head, intercooler, boots, etc.





Ive seen lots of pics on twins but none in person. Someone come to my house right away. I'll be waiting outside by the tree. Thanks.

 

[Ryan]

The non wastegated set up is definately not an off the shelf set up. The decision on the initial sizing was made by JR based on the amount of fuel I had. He had othe housings available to tune with if it was needed. We changed exhaust housings on my HX35 last week in antcipation of new injectors that are in the works. I am still running my stock intercooler, 3 of the 4 stock boots(the 4th needed to be relplaced due to piping angles and alignments), and stock headbolts. JR is currently building a set that will use a stock HX35/12wg for the small turbo.

 

[chrleb1]

I would call Pius at Bell Turbo. I talked to him the other day and that guy really knows his stuff. He makes more turbos than the USB and WSB. The also makes a MSB and an ASB turbo. Prices are in your range too.