Archived No oil pressure at cold start up!

[Mbschmidt]

Over the past couple days I have noticed that when I start up "Red" it will come right up to pressure and then after about 20 seconds it will drop to 0. If I restart it or tap the throttle, the pressure will come right up to normal and stay there. If shut off and left to sit under 1 hour, the pressure will come up and stay up without issue. Problem is when it is left for more than an hour.



Figuring it might be the sending switch, I ordered one which didn't come in on the afternoon parts truck so I bought an inexpensive mechanical gauge and installed it via the filter housing (changed oil and filter at the same time with Rotella T 15W40 & Wix filter). It has confirmed the worst case scenario, no oil pressure at cold startup! The stock gauge comes right up after about 3 seconds, but the mechanical gauge does not move at all. Then the stock gauge will drop to zero, and the mechanical gauge stays at zero. Tap the throttle or put in gear and the pressure comes up. (Definite difference in sound once oil pressure comes up) I then test drove the truck for about 30 minutes, pressure never dropped below 20 and would top out at about 85 psi under load at WOT. Made a few stops along the way and shut the truck off each time and pressure came right up according to the mech. gauge. Brought the truck home and let it sit for an hour or so, same thing happens again... stock gauge goes up, mech. gauge stays at zero, then stock gauge drops too... until the last 2 times I tried it. Now I cannot get the oil pressure to come up at all!!



Good new is that the truck is in my driveway, bad news is I need it Monday for work! I have read a little about the oil pressure relief valve, but have not seen if anyone has had the same problem as mine, and had the pressure relief valve solve it. I have tried not to let it run more than 30 seconds while displaying 0 oil pressure, and don't want to keep firing it up with no pressure while I blindly try to find the culprit. Any help would be appreciated! I am leaving this morning to pick up another truck and won't be back until late this afternoon.

 

[mwilson]

Over the past couple days I have noticed that when I start up "Red" it will come right up to pressure and then after about 20 seconds it will drop to 0. If I restart it or tap the throttle, the pressure will come right up to normal and stay there. If shut off and left to sit under 1 hour, the pressure will come up and stay up without issue. Problem is when it is left for more than an hour.



Figuring it might be the sending switch, I ordered one which didn't come in on the afternoon parts truck so I bought an inexpensive mechanical gauge and installed it via the filter housing (changed oil and filter at the same time with Rotella T 15W40 & Wix filter). It has confirmed the worst case scenario, no oil pressure at cold startup! The stock gauge comes right up after about 3 seconds, but the mechanical gauge does not move at all. Then the stock gauge will drop to zero, and the mechanical gauge stays at zero. Tap the throttle or put in gear and the pressure comes up. (Definite difference in sound once oil pressure comes up) I then test drove the truck for about 30 minutes, pressure never dropped below 20 and would top out at about 85 psi under load at WOT. Made a few stops along the way and shut the truck off each time and pressure came right up according to the mech. gauge. Brought the truck home and let it sit for an hour or so, same thing happens again... stock gauge goes up, mech. gauge stays at zero, then stock gauge drops too... until the last 2 times I tried it. Now I cannot get the oil pressure to come up at all!!



Good new is that the truck is in my driveway, bad news is I need it Monday for work! I have read a little about the oil pressure relief valve, but have not seen if anyone has had the same problem as mine, and had the pressure relief valve solve it. I have tried not to let it run more than 30 seconds while displaying 0 oil pressure, and don't want to keep firing it up with no pressure while I blindly try to find the culprit. Any help would be appreciated! I am leaving this morning to pick up another truck and won't be back until late this afternoon.

This is from my '06 but yours should be the same.



Number 4 is the pressure regulator, and Number 9 is the pressure relief.



You should be able to get the regulator out and see if it is scored, has something stuck in it, etc. without getting in too deep. Spring could be broken as well.



I can give you a part number but I want either your truck or engine serial number first.



More engine guys will jump in, I'm sure.

Mike.

 

[Bob4x4]

I had one similiar. There was no visible signs of wear or scoring replacing the complete housing was required to repair it

 

[Mbschmidt]

'03 5. 9 liter. 6 code engine. 182K miles

 

[mwilson]

'03 5. 9 liter. 6 code engine. 182K miles

I need the truck serial number or engine serial number. I won't post numbers for engine or other critical parts without one.



If you would prefer to keep it private please e-mail it to me and I'll glady provide part numbers and what the cost should be.



-- email address removed --



Mike.

 

[p-Bar]

This part will have to be "made up" by Cummins they are pretty fast on it I got mine in about 3 days

 

[HHhuntitall]

What brand oil filter are you running?

 

[Mbschmidt]

Update:

Took the pressure regulator apart this morning and it looked ok, no scoring and it came out of the bore easily. It was pretty clean too, so I sprayed it off and put it back together. Started the truck and still no oil pressure. I guess the next logical step would be to pull the filter housing and check the pressure relief valve, but I am thinking that just replacing the whole filter housing might be smarter to eliminate any problems associated with it like Bob4x4 had?

HHhuntitall: Always use Wix filters. Just changed oil & filter, made no difference.

mwilson: Just sent you VIN# for the truck.

 

[mwilson]

Update:



Took the pressure regulator apart this morning and it looked ok, no scoring and it came out of the bore easily. It was pretty clean too, so I sprayed it off and put it back together. Started the truck and still no oil pressure. I guess the next logical step would be to pull the filter housing and check the pressure relief valve, but I am thinking that just replacing the whole filter housing might be smarter to eliminate any problems associated with it like Bob4x4 had?



HHhuntitall: Always use Wix filters. Just changed oil & filter, made no difference.



mwilson: Just sent you VIN# for the truck.

Ok, here we go.



The graphic for your truck is a bit different than mine so here it is... .

#4 3929457 O-RING $3. 44



#3 3925009 SPRING $2. 89



#8 3947287 PLUNGER, PRESSURE REGULATOR $7. 03



#5 3936365 VALVE, PRESSURE RELIEF $7. 51



#9 3864458 GASKET, FILTER HEAD $12. 65



#10 4895742 GASKET, OIL COOLER $18. 43



#12 3965152 HEAD, LUBE OIL FILTER $57. 74 (INCLUDES #11 OIL FILTER NIPPLE)



I can not tell if Item # 12 would come with the valves all in it or not, I can't see that level of detail.

You may want to ask before ordering, we dealers are not privy to all the info like the distributors are.



My Cummins distributor stocks the spring and relief plunger which indicates that they must have a little trouble with them, or it is the first thing that gets changed with an oil pressure complaint.



If your local Cummins dealer / distributor does not have these and you want them in a hurry tell them you want overnight delivery from the factory. The freight charges should be 12% of the price of the part. For example a normal size part that costs $100. 00 will have an air freight charge of $12. 00 on it. Freight is pretty fair from Cummins.



Mike.

 

[p-Bar]

Ok, here we go.

The graphic for your truck is a bit different than mine so here it is... .


View attachment 84373


#4 3929457 O-RING $3. 44

#3 3925009 SPRING $2. 89

#8 3947287 PLUNGER, PRESSURE REGULATOR $7. 03

#5 3936365 VALVE, PRESSURE RELIEF $7. 51

#9 3864458 GASKET, FILTER HEAD $12. 65

#10 4895742 GASKET, OIL COOLER $18. 43

#12 3965152 HEAD, LUBE OIL FILTER $57. 74 (INCLUDES #11 OIL FILTER NIPPLE)

I can not tell if Item # 12 would come with the valves all in it or not, I can't see that level of detail.
You may want to ask before ordering, we dealers are not privy to all the info like the distributors are.

My Cummins distributor stocks the spring and relief plunger which indicates that they must have a little trouble with them, or it is the first thing that gets changed with an oil pressure complaint.

If your local Cummins dealer / distributor does not have these and you want them in a hurry tell them you want overnight delivery from the factory. The freight charges should be 12% of the price of the part. For example a normal size part that costs $100. 00 will have an air freight charge of $12. 00 on it. Freight is pretty fair from Cummins.

Mike.

When I ordered mine it was a stripped unit will have to order everything seperate.

 

[Mbschmidt]

Well, had the truck towed to RPM Offroad in Bristol today. Hopefully my boys up there can find the problem without too much expense. Jereme suggested pulling the stock sensor to check for pressure there, then if no pressure we pull the filter head and start checking there.
Thanks to everyone for all the help! I have another question though... What should I be looking for now since I have run the truck for up to 30-60 seconds at least a few times without oil pressure at cold startup? I am thinking that the bearings and rings are probably ok, but I am worried about the turbo. Any thoughts would be appreciated!

 

[g_dog1]

I am just curious, where in the oil circuit does the oil gage detect oil pressure from. It is ALWAYS after the oil filter isn't it? The reason I am asking is because I used to have a Gas engine GMC with high oil pressure, and I can't understand how I could ever have high oil pressure, unless the regulator valve was stuck wide open, or the oil filter by-pass valve was stuck wide open.

 

[Mbschmidt]

UPDATE:

The guys at RPM pulled the oil cooler and filter head. The Pressure Relief Valve was not stuck and appeared to be functioning properly. Then they pulled the pan and checked the pick-up tube and gasket. Both appeared to be fine. Now we are waiting on gaskets to put that all back together, then I think they are going to pull the oil pump and check it out.

I can really use some help guys! At this point I figured we would have found an obvious problem, and pulling the accessory drive and pump is a pretty tall task. Personally, I don't think that the oil pump is the culprit since the truck would eventually get pressure. I have always been told that if the oil pump goes out, it will not come back. Getting very frustrated and don't want to keep throwing money blindly at the truck hoping to find the problem.

 

[seafish]

Found this on CF for you--

THIS WAS ON A 2003 5. 9 CTD--

"OK, had my partner's brother, who is a mechanic who can work on the Dodge motors. He is the one that rebuilt the motor for me last year. He took apart the oil filter and housing on Friday. He said he did a little research, and this was the first place to look.

Firstly, Forgive me for doing such a poor job of describing the part and the problem, I am going only on what he told his brother, who told me over the phone. I have not seen it personally. I am sure the guys on here that work on their own diesels can do a much better job describing the issue than I. I am strictly a gas burner mechanic.

Behind the oil filter housing is an oil cooler that uses the water jacket of the block to cool the oil. There is a billet block between this and the filter housing. The gasket between this block and the oil filter housing is what had failed. There was a pressure loss through the gasket causing my low oil pressure at start-up. It did not leak on the ground or into the water system, just between the two lines.

He bought $20 worth of gaskets, and a few hours replacing them and changing the oil and filter. Now I have instant oil pressure at start-up!"

MY Disclaimer, many, though not all, of CF members do NOT have the tech experience or mechanical maturity that TDR cummins owners seem to have, so the info there needs to be taklen with a grain of salt!! That being said, I have found some useful info there over the years.

 

[Bob4x4]

The oil pump will not fix the issue they pump or do not

 

[seafish]

Here is a link to the thread--

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3rd-gen-powertrain/446234-lose-oil-pressure-when-start-up.html