Archived No Start 2004 Dealer Says New ECU?

[JRMora]

This fall my truck fell victim to the "long crank - no start". Its a 2004 305/555 48 state truck with 210k miles. Put new batteries in (the old ones were 3+ years old). Truck ran fine once it started. Burned up a starter and replaced it (cranking too long). Finally at the beginning of December it just wouldn't start at all. Dealer ended up replacing two injectors (#4 and #5) and the fuel pressure regulator. Truck ran fine til I parked it before going home for the holidays. Truck sat for ~2 weeks. Temps dropped to 10's and 20's while gone. When I got back it was back to cranking and no start. used block heater. No start. Boosted batteries with another truck. No start. Fuel in bowl, no sign of gelling. Temps warmed back to sixties. Still no start. Finally towed back to dealer. The got it started with ether, ran fine all injectors working as they should but they say now the grid heater circuit is getting no signal from ECU and ECU needs to be replaced. Quoting $2700 for ECU and $600 for install. With the other work just done i would be in over $6,000. I sold my fifth wheel last year, don't need the truck anymore. Should I cut my losses and try and get what I can for the truck or do I keep shoveling money into it? Money is very tight now.

Anybody have any ideas? I'm down to one vehicle for three drivers. Need to do something soon.

Thanks.

Juan

 

[cerberusiam]

Reman ECM is about $800 and they are pretty simple to change. Down side is it might take a couple redo's to get it right and everything working.

I would question whether the hard start is the grid heaters, above 0 degrees (even a little below) grid heater is not required to start the truck. The fact it starts and runs on starting fluid (it does run ok correct?) means it is likely another injector or even the remans that are bad. Since the grid heaters are not working you should have no problem starting it on ether for now until you can fins a workable solution. Just disconnect the power supply to the relays for safety. I know that doesn't help as set of new injectors about the same cost as the ECM, but, you can do injectors 1 at a time to maybe isolate it. Have them run a contribution test on the injectors and a rpm drop on injector kill to get an idea what to do. Make SURE the truck is up to operating temp when the tests are run or they will be inaccurate.

 

[JRMora]

Thanks Cerberusium. Dealer told me remans must be programmed for VIN match or they do not work. Are there sellers or third party builders that reprogram these? Can you suggest sources for remanned ECU's? They tell me the diagnostics say all six injectors are fine. Truck runs fine when started (as it did before). I can pay the diagnostic fee and take to another shop. The only other shop in town that works with Dodge Cummins just said "yep, sounds right to me". I have basic skills but no access to any of the diagnostic equipment.

 

[cerberusiam]

When you buy a reman ECM you send them all the truck info, VIN, build date, etc., so they can program it correctly. They load the stock Dodge flash on it for the VIN. If you have or buy a Smarty they will get you a recovery file for your exact truck. Load it and away you go. I have s Smarty Touch so it is easy for me. A good used ECM and I am good to go. Have to get the correct revision or memory areas are wrong. From 04 to 05 there are by revisions of the ECM; CM84A thru CM84E. You can look at your to know which revision is needed and the VIN will tell what flash is needed. Do a search in the 3rd gen section for "reman ECM", I think several have gone this route. If you can't find anything let me know and will get a rec form a friend that has used a business to do this.

If the truck runs fine when started then it is likely the injectors are bypassing too much fuel, the dealer needs to do a return flow test to validate that but my experience has been they would rather charge you to send injectors out for testing than do an actual test. If they don't have return flow specs, a contribution test, and rpm drop on kill tests to show you they are just blowing smoke and guessing. If the only issue with the ECU they can find is the grid heater (they had better have checked the relays and power supply or it is just more smoke) I would look at injectors a LOT closer. A grid heater not activating will not cause no start unless you are well below zero given the fuel system is solid. Worn injectors WILL cause a long crank and\or no start. Their diagnostic efforts and solutions leave a lot to be desired without more investigation. Your other diesel shop doesn't sound any brighter with type of response, which is not surprising.
Sans the diagnostic tools, you yourself can change and ECM and injectors easily with basic hand tools. If you want to pay them for diagnostics get a printout of the contribution percentages per cylinder, rpm drop on initial injector kill for each cylinder. Those 2 can help isolate bad injectors(s) injection events. If they will do it, a return flow test per Dodges published test will tell you if they are bypassing too much fuel. Without those 3 tests they and anyone else is just guessing at the problem.

 

[Mark31]

Cerb, I was under the impression that 04 software did not have the capability to do these checks. Was I fed a line? Mark

 

[cerberusiam]

Well, if they said all injectors are working correctly they must have run some tests on it. I think the a DRBIII has the ability to do the basic tests. AutoEnginuity I believe had issues with the first revisions but I think the fixed it.

 

[Missouri Mule]

When you say fuel regulator, do mean the fca ( fuel control accuator or fuel pressure sensor. The the is on the cp3 pump, the fps is on the return line to the cp3. The fca can hard starts or no start but so the pressure sensor . The gas controls the amount of fuel cp3 puts out and l believe the pressure sensors acts like a overflow in p7100 pump opening closing to keep the pressure of the fuel in the rail at the correct pressure.
Since the engine runs fine after you get it running the fuel pressure sensor seems to be working.
Before you buy a new ecu try spraying tthe connectors out with contact cleaner and see if that get things going
3 years on batteries seems to short of a time to be replaced but then your in colder climates then I am. Food for thought. Maybe a symptom/ solution file will come to the top of my cranial ,

 

[JRMora]

Bill - I meant FCA.

Anyway, you all have given me some good input. I’m going to “rescue” the truck from the dealer and bring her home. Found another diesel mech with Cummins experience and will get it to him. A “second opinion”. I also believe it’s another injector.

After 14 years and 210k I guess I just have to own up to paying the piper.

I’ll let you all know how it turns out.

 

[sag2]

You are in it so deep now and the chance it does need one or more injectors would make me lean toward having the injectors pulled and tested. The shop I used to use would test and replace new nozzles for about $120 each. Once you know the injectors are good you can wire a switch to the grid heater relays and just fire them up manually. Thats what I would do if it were mine and I didn't have a bunch of money to spend on it.

 

[Ozymandias]

Even at -22°F mine startet fine without grid heater after 3sec crank time. no need for grid heater.

 

[Bob4x4]

Is the truck up and running yet?

 

[CrewCabDiesel]

fyi, Auto Enginuity scan tools does have injection shutdown on the Chrysler version, I have the early 2004 also and run the test on my truck. Best to get a second opinion, way too much bs going on.
Kyle