Noisy frt. engine, little boost, low power climbing up I-26 N into Asheville, NC

[WalterJ]

My 2009 Banks tuner failed last month, replacement not communicating with trk computers, so I'm in Pwr Lvl #1. Troubleshooting here in Swannanoa, NC [10mi E. of Asheville] revealed engine noise probably from 'diesel knock'. Mechanic monitoring engine parameters during test ride & concludes insufficient air, thus fuel rich diesel knock condition. Turbo cold end exposed & shaft is quite moveable radially. Jumbled programming may be contributing to unusual boost levels, e.g. 10psig at high throttle climbing I-26.

I'm becoming more comfortable with the orig. turbo only lasting 271K miles, but the wife cannot appreciate the age/mileage related events these last 3 weeks of a blownup flexplate, wornout Banks vacuum pump, failed tuner, wornout belt tensioner & cracked/leaking AV condenser. Bad enough when home, but 1300 miles away from home eroded confidence in "Clyde" to ZERO! How can a guy even pretend to say, "Don't worry, everything's gunna be OK now, honey", with 800 miles remaining 'till home.

Query: To what extent may I have damaged my wonderful engine by not taking more definitive action with this 'ubiquitous' undefinable noise for 5000 miles? It's not running rough, if that means anything.
NOTE: this engine noise was barely noticeable Oct. 2015, 5000 miles ago, & progressively got worse.

 

[WalterJ]

Followup: A KY diesel rebuild/repair shop listened to my 'noisy engine' Pyro'd the exhaust and all were within 7 deg of 250deg at idle. Removed oil filter & cut it open for inspection--pleats were clean and no FOD. Heated a sample of oil to 400deg looking for fuel [with a small propane flame] & none found,

Their Conclusion:No rod knock, no noticeable 'over fueling'. Drive it home, be happy & start saving $$ for replacement injectors, as my 272K miles was a good run for my money so far.

 

[WalterJ]

I intend completing my remaining 600 miles home. The noisy engine operation has been heard by a Cummins Service Supv., sharing that it may sound like slight fuel knock, but without any smoking under load [5'er attached] or otherwise during a loaded test ride, he said get it home & look into it further there, damage is not likely, but it's not rod knock.

Then the oil/filter studied later by a diesel rebuild shop who cut filter open for inspection & saw clean pleats, thus no internal damage being done & it doesn't sound like any rod knock. They also heated an oil sample, looking for fuel & as they passed 400deg, no evidence of fuel found by passing a small flame over the sample cup. While being heated thru 200deg., no evidence of water in the oil either- concluding oil is OK. I have OEM fuel filter system & use Donaldson #ELF[DBL]7349 oil filter & Baldwin PF7977 fuel filter.

As my sig reports, we're at 272K miles & counting. This 'engine noise' started maybe 6 months ago, creeping up on me, so to speak. Frog in the pot scenario, eh.

Replacing injectors for me is quoted @ $3,300, including "Bosch Remans" @ $400ea. @ a trusted shop Mayer Repair, in SE Wis.

NOTE: I've been using Lucas fuel treatment for years, then read a report of the “High Frequency Reciprocating Rig” or HFRR test. 14)Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant
Gas or diesel, HFRR 641, 5 microns worse than baseline (statistically insignificant change), 427:1 ratio, 7.8 oz/tank, $2.65/tank ranked 14 of 19! Then Howes last 4 years, mainly for Winter treatment, & 2-cycle oil sometimes.

I'm now using Opti-Lube: 4)Opti-Lube Summer Blend, Multi-purpose, demulsifier, HFRR 447, 189 micron improvement, 3000:1 ratio, 1.11 oz/tank, $0.68/tank.

Source: http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/99...827-diesel-kleen-vs-lucas-vs-stanadyne-3.html

We RV about 5K-8K miles annually. So does it seem my injector life these 12 years is nominal? Safe travels my TDR friends.

Wally

 

[cerberusiam]

Based on 2 pretty identical trucks, you got the goody and then some out of those injectors. Without 3 um filtration 200-250k is the normal expected lifetime. As they wear they get noisy just operating, in addition to the typical rattle the 124 degree OE injectors have. If you really are down on boost then it will be a little worse under load.

The $400 for Bosch reman injector is high, the $600 to install is probably fair but the other $2400 is way too much for a crappy injector you can buy over the counter for $350 or less most places. If you want to rely on the truck and have a solid injector get NEW not REMAN. There are a lot of options for new injectors, form OE to mild performance, to more performance.

My personal favorite is the BMS 50 HP injectors in the 143 degree pattern. Add a tuner that allows to manipulate timing and add a little fuel and you will get better more usable power with better efficiency in a quality NEW injector. BMS also has the 60 HP injectors in the 126 degree pattern, have not used them but others have and liked them. Those can be had for around $400 per unit. You will want to replace the cross over tubes also, they are a wear item and have been subject to the same long term pressures as the injectors. It is likely they are stressed and the edge filters ruined.

While you are at it check the rail lines for corrosion and any problems at the cross over tube connection. #4 is a problem and should be replaced, while it is apart #5 and #6 might as well be done as they are hard to get to.

after spending all that money get a 3 um aux filter to put between the OE housing and the CP-3 to protect the investment.

 

[WalterJ]

Cerberusiam: Thanks again for your time & comments. You speak clear & directly to the issue at hand; a notable asset to this forum you are.

Update: Since resetting ECM, I'm fine with boost at hvy throttle, 35#+. Higher boost #'s came in earlier with Banks @ Pwr Lvl 6 of course. Stuck in Pwr Lvl 1 for now.

It's 'comforting' to know I got my $$ worth out of the OEM injectors. [I'll be sharing these posts to my spousal unit.] I've had #5 & #6 lines replaced 2 & 3 years ago under less than ideal conditions 1300 miles down South. I'll likely add replacement of lines #1 - #4 during inject replacement.

Dun know nuttin' 'bout "crossover tubes", but taking your advice in strong consideration & will be an item of discussion w/shop.

I was always intrigued by the possibility of using "50HP" injectors; and now feel more comfortable with the prospect. However, anyone you know, had good operation using 50HP injectors with the Banks tuner, 'cause that's what I'm using now & cannot afford changing to another tuner. I'm not building a 'ridge runner', but like many of my Cummins aficionados, cannot resist the opportunity to have a little more umph for those 'emergencies', like racing a Prius uphill in the Rockies! Did I just think that aloud?

I'll be in contact with Glacier Diesel or ??? to recommendation a 2-3 micron, downstream OEM filter installation.

Wally

 

[cerberusiam]

This is the easiest in a completer setup for adequate filtration: http://www.glacierdieselpower.com/product.aspx?pf_id=MK20305-APPS

What Banks tuner do you have? Ideally, you want to be able to control timing or at least know what it is doing.

 

[WalterJ]

This is the easiest in a completer setup for adequate filtration: http://www.glacierdieselpower.com/product.aspx?pf_id=MK20305-APPS

What Banks tuner do you have? Ideally, you want to be able to control timing or at least know what it is doing.

Cerberusium;

Like the looks of their MK-2 setup. Talked to Richard @ GDP; concerned my Banks vacuum pmp may be in the way of their traditional APPS mnt'g kit. He suggested I try & send it back if no-joy installation. Cool attitude. We discussed alternate locations, but when I mentioned Wisconsin Winters, it's probably prudent the filter stay in a 'warm' environment.

My Economind Banks tuner has no timing parameters nor data available to me, just Pwr Lvl's 1(OEM) - 6. Their various fueling schedules adj appropriate timing. I've found better mileage @ lvl 6, some have explained that this 'schedule' has earlier timing for the initial injections, thus permitting more overall combustion time & better burning, etc.

Thanks again.

 

[cerberusiam]

The BMS 50's with the 143 degree spray pattern want a little more timing for efficiency. They will work just fine with stock timing but better with timing. The Banks tuner doesn't add massive amounts of fuel so I think it would work pretty well with the BMS 50's.