Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) NV4500 1-1/4 to 1-3/8 EEP DD Conversion

[AndyMan]

Well, I'm not having a lot of luck selling this nearly new Enterprise Engine Mitchell Dual Disc clutch that was new with the truck I just bought. As luck would have it though, today as I was calling around trying to get people to put an ad up in their shop for the clutch, I ran across a guy who has the same clutch with the 1-3/8" shaft. The clutch itself is shot, BUT the shaft and hubs are in good shape. My question is this. What all do I need in the 1-3/8" size in order to run the larger shaft?

I know I need the following:
1. Hubs from the two friction plates
2. the entire disc that goes between the friction plates
3. The input shaft itself

What else?
1. Will the flywheel I have already work with the larger input shaft? Just a bigger pilor bearing maybe?
2. throwout bearing have to be bigger?
3. Pressure plate?
4. Are their other WEAR parts that I will have to replace? I can use my existing brand new friction plates and just have the bigger hubs mounted in them.

I don't know what all has a center that must mate up to the bigger shaft.

Thanks for the info.

 

[SRadke]

I'm confused... are you going to run the clutch? Isn't it already in the truck? Or are you trying to put together a 1 3/8" package to sell?



The diffrences as far as I know are:

The shaft (obvoiusly)

Clutch disk centers

Imput shaft retainer

Imput shaft bearing and seal



I believe the throwout bearings are the same as well as the pilot bearings, don't quote me on that though.



-Scott

 

[AndyMan]

Yeah, lemme back up a little bit.

Previous owner bought the clutch new and used his existing 1-1/4 input shaft. He drove the truck for 2000 miles and subsequently snapped the input shaft. At that point, I bought the truck. Last Saturday, I got the truck on a lift and some friends and I pulled the transmission and clutch. The clutch looks almost brand spankin new. I had planned to sell the dual disc and put in some form of single disc clutch. However, after doing some calling, I found a used Mitchell DD (Just like mine), but with the 1-3/8 setup. SO, I started thinking that I could buy it, scavenge the parts I need, have a clutch shop locally put the larger hubs on my almost new friction discs and then I would have an almost new clutch with 1-3/8 parts instead of the 1-1/4 parts.

If I put it together, I'll run it. If I leave it like it is, I'll sell it.

Clear as mud?

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

How bout asking Mitchells what they'd get to make it 1 3/8"?

 

[AndyMan]

I've called and e-mailed. Not sure I've gotten all the info I need, but since I'm not actually buying anything from them for this project, I didn't want to keep bugging them. I realize that I own their product, and they should support it.

You guys are free, generally helpful and quite knowledgeable. Plus posting it here shares the answers with everyone.

 

[SRadke]

You can either get another 1 1/4 imput shaft and put it back together (read cheap and funcitonal) or buy a 1 3/8 imput shaft kit (comes with the retainer, seal and bearings) and put it in after having sombody put new bubs in your discs. They may choose not to do this and opt to trade your 1 1/4 discs for a set of 1 3/8's. Either way it should be cheaper than buying a complete used clutch setup.



-Scott

 

[AndyMan]

Hey Scott.

First off, I agree with your assessment. I'm not sure I'd come out cheaper though. There has been NO mention of "trade-in" when talking to EEP. Only "here's what I can sell you to convert it. "

Regarding which way would get me out cheaper, let's say I get this used clutch & input shaft for $500 shipped (likely). When I called EEP, they quoted me $850 for a 1-3/8" input shaft, and $350 for the hubs. That's $700 more than what the complete used clutch will cost me. That $850+$350 doesn't count any of the shop ($) work to move the hubs over to my friction discs.

If I buy the used clutch & shaft for $500, I'll probably still need new bearings for the shaft, but that's $50 or so. I really think I'll come out better that way.

From what I understand, at the HP level of this truck, the 1-1/4 shaft will be a "snap waiting to happen". So, I think swapping it out is not an option.

Of course, even after all this, a DD clutch is REALLY overkill for my street application. I'd rather sell it, but I already own it, am having trouble selling it and am trying to make the best of the situation.

 

[SRadke]

If you can get the used DD with imput shaft for $500 jump on it. That's cheap. That is assuming you'll get a flywheel, frictions, floater and pressure plate. The flywheel can usually be surface, the frictions relined, and the pressure plate rebuilt. The bearing and seal on the imput shaft should be available locally so it sounds like a good way to go. Have you found a clutch shop that is willing to do the hub swap? That may be your biggest hangup.



Reguarding shaft breakage I would guess you wouldn't break the smaller shaft if you drive it like a single disk. If you had enough power to make breakage inevitable the dual disk would be a must, not a choice. My opinion of course, worth very little.



-Scott

 

[AndyMan]

I would be buying the whole thing, from flywheel to pressure plate. I think we got off track from my orginal question though. Given that I'm getting the whole thing, what parts from it do I need?

I've already got a freshly surfaced flywheel from MY DD set up. Can I just get a new pilot bearing for it and use it with the bigger shaft, or will I have to resurface the flywheel I'm buying (READ: does the 1-3/8 input shaft need a different flywheel than the 1-1/4). Same goes for the rest of the parts. Hopefully what you originally listed will be all the differences.

Thanks for the help,
Andy

 

[Smokin Dodge]

The only thing you need are the hubs and the 1 3/8 shaft everything else is the same. I started with the 1 1/4 and broke it and sent my disk back to EEP for the bigger hubs and thats all that I had to change in the clutch setup.

 

[AndyMan]

Right on. Thanks for the info.

 

[SRadke]

If that's the case would it be cheaper to have your worn out 1 3/8" friction disks relined and just use them than it would be to swap hubs? Thinking out loud.

 

[AndyMan]

Errrr Maybe. There's 48 "buttons" total between the two friction plates, which in turn means 96 "rivets" (or whatever they are that hold the buttons on the disc) that would have to be replaced. There's only about 20 "rivets (or whatever they are) that hold the hubs on.

I'd have to ask the clutch shop about that if I decide to go this route. Good suggestion, definately something to keep in mind.

 

[Smokin Dodge]

Im pretty sure that EEP only charged me 75$ for each hub but they actually just sent me new disc with the bigger hubs becuase they didnt have any spare 1-3/8 hubs, the disck I sent to them only had about 300 mi on them so they were still new. Try calling EEP again and see what they will work out with you talk to Doug.

 

[AndyMan]

Now that's a good deal. I did actually send Loretta an e-mail at Doug's request. She got back to me yesterday morning and told me that they were real busy with getting the charity pull together, and that she would work with Doug to see what they could come up with. There's light at the end of the tunnel.

I could have sworn that he told me $350 for the hubs. It'd be awesome to get them for $75/ea though. There's something else for me to hope for.

Thanks guys.