Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) NV4500 capacity

[rkubicki]

How much transmission fluid does the NV4500 require?... Are there any advantages or drawbacks to overfilling it?



Thanks,



Rob

 

[LarryB]

4qts. My suggestion (I know! You didn't ask. ) is to use only Syntorq. It runs lots cooler.

 

[rkubicki]

Thanks Larry! ... Thats what I needed to know... . The Castrol Syntorq LT is pretty hard to find... For now, I put in the synthetic stuff from the dealer to get me up and running... I plan on changing to the Syntorq when I can find it.



Thanks, Rob

 

[LarryB]

The synthetic stuff specified by and purchased from the dealer is Syntorq repackaged for DC. Perfect!

 

[Bob Horrell]

I talked to Blumenthals about this and they said they see a lot of failures due to too little oil. If towing heavy in the hills the front bearings don't get enough oil with the stock level of oil - to the bottom of the fill hole. They suggest putting in an extra quart. They accomplish this by removing the shifter and filling it from the top. I found that if I run one side of the truck up on ramps it tilts it enough that I can get another quart in the fill hole - a lot easier and quicker than removing the shifter and you don't have to worry about accidently spilling oil in the truck interior.

I have fast coolers with the extra oil as described above and rarely see temps above 150 degrees even when towing heavy and I tow heavy on a daily basis. When towing heavy and then pulling off the highway and traveling up the long slow dirt road to the ranch, the temp will climb a bit since there is no longer good airflow around the trans. and it is not that far from the exhaust which is still pretty warm pulling a load up a steep bumpy road. Temperature changes occur very slowly in the transmission.

 

[rhoads]

fluid level

The guy at B H must have been up with no rest!!!!!!!!!!

NV 4500 is is filled to the bottom of the plug ,just shy of 4 Gt's The front bearing problem is in the Gut Rag transmission,with which was talked about----------------Front bearing failure+++++++

I my self opted to use the Castrol's (same wt) syntec Gl5 with over 750 K who is right??????

Load cap wt shy of 33,000 # and 7 % grades 4 miles long,non -stop 10 hrs(DOT) and still have all oem bearings and syn's still in place ??? No lube related failure and have crossed all lower 48 states--over & over...

 

[Badunit]

I had a NV4500 in my '01 2500 with the 5. 9 V8. With the factory lube it had this weird tendency to hang up in reverse. I'd reverse, stop, then try to shift to a forward gear and it wouldn't budge unless I moved the truck just a little more. I replaced the Syntorq with Amsoil Series 2000 75W-90 and the problem almost completely went away. I know there was something wrong in that transmission but this made me a believer that the Amsoil was better.

 

[illflem]

Overfilling a transmission, gearbox or differential is rarely a good idea. A roller bearing totally submerged in oil runs hotter than one that is partially submerged. Too much oil can cause fluid friction and overheating, which leads to oxidation and premature lubricant failure, the opposite of what you're after. Most bearing manufactures recommend a bearing should only be submerged one third max. Adding extra capacity is great but not by raising the oil level. The companies that build gearboxes engineer the oil level for maximum life and efficiency, to alter it is to only ask for trouble. Fill your transmission to the bottom of the fill hole while parked on a level surface and it will last as long as tdramrmbr's.

 

[Sled Puller]

I wonder if Blumenthals are mistaking "too little oil" for "oil just burned up from extreme heat of a BOMBed truck towing heavy?"



That happens a lot.

 

[LarryB]

Originally posted by Sled Puller

oil just burned up from extreme heat of a BOMBed truck towing heavy?" That happens a lot.

Yep! Once you put temp gauges in your gearboxes, You have a whole new understanding.

 

[Tom C]

I just changed my fluid today. Manual says 4 quarts. transmission only took 3 and a half quarts. Guess I could tilt the truck up on is side :--) .

 

[rkubicki]

Thanks guys... Since this was a freshly built, "dry" unit, I put all 4 quarts in from the top with the shifter removed... I had to have the shifter "stub" out to get the transmission in the truck so it worked out best that way.



From the top of the transmission you can look down inside and see quite a lot... Its kind of scary - after putting in 4 quarts you still can't see the fluid level... I stayed with the factory recommended 4 quarts though...



I'm not too concerned about cooling at this time since the transmission went on a near-stock 1st gen engine that is lucky if it sees a 10k load ... The steepest grade I have gone up is freeway exit ramp. . (its pretty flat here in Chicago)... . I think its safe to say that the transmission is seeing a lighter duty than if it were in a stock 2nd gen. . If I am off base here, someone please say something.



I love the transmission, BTW... I had no idea my engine sounded that good before



Rob

 

[rkubicki]

Originally posted by illflem

Overfilling a transmission, gearbox or differential is rarely a good idea..... Most bearing manufactures recommend a bearing should only be submerged one third max. Adding extra capacity is great but not by raising the oil level.

I had to add an extra quart from the shifter hole on my Getrag transmission because the mainshaft roller bearing was actually starved for oil... Main bearing starvation contributes to (if not causes) the failure of the G360... Quite a different situation from a transmission that provides oil to all of it's internals under normal conditions... This is what prompted me to start this thread - I was not certain if a similar situation existed within the NV4500 box... I'm glad I asked



Thanks, Rob

 

[Fast 1]

Midwest Transmissions in Zumbrota MN. put a set of Fast Coolers on a customers truck with a NV 4500 and filled it with 8 quarts. They dropped his temps by 70 degrees. When adding only one extra quart the oil level is raised very little.



The engineers that designed the fifth gear assembly on a partially splinned shaft probably decided where to put the fill hole? Don't we all feel much better now?



Fast Coolers

Verlyn Fast

 

[DuallyDean]

Fast 1--



Adding oil capacity by extending the pto openings and providing more cooling surface is a brilliant, and I really like your products.

I don't buy the idea that just because your oil temps are lower that your bearings can't overheat from being over-submerged. You have no idea what the temp is LOCALLY at the bearing, where all that fluid friction is happening. You only see the effects of a larger heat sink (more oil), which obviously helps maintain oil life. Just because your coolant temp is only 160 degrees doesn't mean that your valves aren't running over 1,000 degrees (look at your pyro). My example of localized heat measurement...

 

[rhoads]

lube/bearing/coolers

Its your money vs there hipe --too cooler--over fill--lube choice.

The first two i by-passed-- the third i went with my choice. .

Hills of alllll 48 outside temps of -15-/ +104 deg's and all oem bearings still in place (except for rear upper main "splined" shaft case bearing) replaced just to be fair to a test of the (which included a new rear main shaft- "splined" oem spec's) of what was to be soon released to production "split" Nut Which "didnt prove out But bearings still live on. .

Lube drained every 100k, just because--*8 th change comming up...

Lube Level-- Draw a straight line 2-1/2 ft long -in the center put a plug hole with the bottom of the hole a hair below the line --note you have a seal (round) at the front and rear of the said line!!!! Now ----raise the front end of the line 1 inch , add heat(friction) more or less on lube cap. out side temp--puts more pressure on What?? Seal... . Now you have over filled say 1 Qt -say 1/4 above the bottom of the hole. . MY guess you have to add lube every so often and i could most likely find a film at the rear of transmission/drive line/rearend assy . and when setting still not find the drip,or stream .

If you want more capicity get the cooler Is it needed ??Not in the Nv 4500-----Gut-rag is a different story install it yesterday!!!

 

[Fast 1]

tdramrmbr



Have your transmission factory filled to the bottom of the fill plug. Once it has gotten warm / hot, take the plug out and see how much oil you loose on the ground.



Starting with a factory filled transmission that is filled to the bottom of the fill plug. The lube expands when hot and the original level is raised about two inches above the fill hole. With the clear pto cover I have been able to observe how easily the oil raises when warm, and drops when it is cold. If it has gotten hot enough it can vent and become slightly low on oil.



The oil level does not stay at the same level all the time.



You have an exceptional truck NOT ALL NV4500 DO THIS WELL



Most NV 4500 can use the extra lube for protection / insurance to extend the life of the lube and the transmission.



Fast Coolers



Verlyn Fast

 

[rhoads]

Mag

Forgot one detail-- insurance against a oem/factory defective bearing i attached a 3" speaker magnet to the pto cover to inhance the filler plug tocapture any particales should bearings mfg's/lube not do there job. . this gives you a visual--and can be backed up by your sampling reports--cost effective- in esteded lube change-

all eng/ transmission's/r. ends in my stable enjoy this add on-Low cost preventive maintance item... a few radio's cant be heard!!!