Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) NV4500 What would you do?

[KWentling]

I've got 103K on my '98 and it's to the point that it is very difficult to get into gear from a stop. Fluid has been changed twice at 35K and 70K. Fluid looked good both times but at 70K it was starting to shift hard and I noticed very little or no improvement with the change. Both times it was filled with the GM equivalent oil. Oil appears to be pretty contaminated now. So now I expect it's time for a rebuild. I'm tempted to take it to Quad 4x4 to avoid me having to drop it and put it back in. (About 300 miles) I should probably bite the bullet and do it myself though. I'm confident that I can do the rebuild myself. 5th gear has never been a problem. I tow very little but when I do it is usually heavy. (up to 30K) So. Would you do the fully splined mainshaft, and who's? Reading on Quad's site it sounds like theirs is the best and for good reasons, but overkill for me? What overhaul kit from Quad? I would probably put their ball bearing pilot bearing in also. I'll also do a clutch at that time. Probably go with something from SB. I need to call Quad and discuss this with them. Anybody have any words of wisdom?



Kim

 

[FATCAT]

I am currently waiting for a brand NEW NV4500 from Quad 4X4. I ordered it with the Torque King main shaft and special 5th gear nut. I didn't what to have a rebuild transmission with a new fully splined main shaft, new 5th gear and nut setup installed into a transmission with 200K already on it. I am also getting the TK50 Pilot bearing.



I would say to go with Quad 4X4's best rebuild kit if you want to do it your self. I'm sure you don't want to have to redo it in 20 or 30K miles later by using a cheap rebuild kit. Do it right, and spend a little more money now to save a lot of headache later. It all depends on how important you value your truck and keeping it running. Maybe take the ride up there and have them do it and maybe you could learn a thing or two from Dan the Gear Man, plus get a rebuild warrenty.

 

[KWentling]

It's not that I want to do it myself. Especially the take out and put back in part! Last time I did that I swore I'd gladly pay a shop to do that. Saving some money would be the reason. Warantee is one point I hadn't considered. That's worth something. Another reason is they would have other parts available if needed and if I was doing it I would have to wait for parts to ship. Something that has me somewhat concerned is the condition of the gears if it has been running with excessive endplay. Not crazy about forking out the cash for a new transmission like you have but that may be the way to go. Guess I could pull a cover off and see what it looks like. Thanks for the food for thought.



Kim

 

[KWentling]

Dropped the fluid and pulled a PTO cover. Looks pretty good from what I can see. Might look different when its apart where you can see good though. The main shaft definatly has excessive end play. Oil is pretty grey, but no chunks that I could find. I've about got myself convinced to take it up to Quad and let them do it. Anyone know if a R&R is doable in a day? I know I couldn't! I'll try and give them a call Monday.



Kik

 

[cruiser_2]

Well do yourself a favour whether you do it yourself or have Dan do it, put one of his upgraded pilot bearings and flywheels in. One of the reasons your thansmissiopn goes bad is the fact that the pilot bearing needle bearings loose their lubrication and then disintegrate. You may even have what is left of a bearing in between you clutch plate and flywheel. I know it happened to me. If it is just the input shaft that is damaged then the build is much simpler. Replace the input shaft along with the associated bearing, clean it all out with multiple flushings of mineral spirits reset the endplay with shims and put it back in place.



I almost bought a new one from him, but got a rebuilt one from a friend of mine who deals in transmissions. I still have the old one and will put a new input shaft in and go about my merry way and have a spare.



John



I tried to put a photo in of the front of an input shaft to show what happens when the pilot bearings go bad. Hopefully it came out

 

[KWentling]

That's for sure in the plan. I expect mine will look similar to you're picture. I thought a bad pilot bearing was causing the hard shifting. After reading on Dan's site, excessive endplay will cause that also. Probably one is the result of the other. I'm going to do the complete rebuild. Don't want to have to do this again anytime soon. Hopefully I'll get more than 100K out of it this time. Still kind of up in the air about which mainshaft to go with. Probably let Dan talk me into his Torque King.

Kim

 

[FATCAT]

That's for sure in the plan. I expect mine will look similar to you're picture. I thought a bad pilot bearing was causing the hard shifting. After reading on Dan's site, excessive endplay will cause that also. Probably one is the result of the other. I'm going to do the complete rebuild. Don't want to have to do this again anytime soon. Hopefully I'll get more than 100K out of it this time. Still kind of up in the air about which mainshaft to go with. Probably let Dan talk me into his Torque King.

Kim

Dan only sells his Torque King main shaft in NEW transmissions. He does not sell it in any of his rebuild kits.

 

[SRadke]

Sounds like your clutch or pilot bearing is dragging, you may not have a transmission problem at all.



-Scott

 

[KWentling]

Scott, After pulling the PTO cover and using a pry bar between the two shafts, the input shaft has significant movement up and down telling me it has way more than the . 002-. 006 endplay the book calls for so that need attention too. If it's coming out, it's getting rebuilt.

FATCAT, I thought I saw on the website that they will do a rebuild with the Torqe King, but do not sell it in their rebuild kits or seperately. I'm fixing to call them shortly so I'll find out.

Kim

 

[FATCAT]

Scott, After pulling the PTO cover and using a pry bar between the two shafts, the input shaft has significant movement up and down telling me it has way more than the . 002-. 006 endplay the book calls for so that need attention too. If it's coming out, it's getting rebuilt.

FATCAT, I thought I saw on the website that they will do a rebuild with the Torqe King, but do not sell it in their rebuild kits or seperately. I'm fixing to call them shortly so I'll find out.

Kim

Ooops, sorry, my bad. I thought I remember seeing their web site saying they were not selling the TK in kits last summer, but now when their supply of the regular "fully splined" main shafts are gone, only the TK will be offered.



Quote from Quad4X4's site below:



"Besides the factory style mainshaft there are 3 types of mainshafts available for NV4500 HD transmissions in Dodge Diesel and V10 trucks. For all other applications our Patent Applied For Torque King™ mainshaft is the only optional mainshaft on the market. For complete descriptions of the differing mainshaft styles go to: Tech Article about 5th Gear Failures and the Torque King™ Solution!



The demand for our Torque King™ Sets is high, call for price and availability of Torque King™ Mainshaft and Master Overhaul Kits!!



As the manufacturer of the superior by design Torque King™ mainshaft sets, we will be discontinuing sales of both styles of full spline mainshafts when our current inventory of these shafts is exhausted. "

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

I'm not sure where you are in Wy but a great parts house (or rebuilt shop) is tourist transmission in Salt Lake Cit, FWIW. Good luck with it. . I would have thought you'd get more than 100K too. I do know the synchros go bad in them too. I have heard some rumors about a manufacturer who makes brass ones now so you can even skip the fancy oil... Not sure if I'd do it though... Interesting, never heard about quad4x4 before... Neat site...

 

[KWentling]

Rozet's in NE Wyoming just east of Gillette. Quad is just under 300 miles so it's quite a bit closer than SLC. I'm set up to have Dan do the overhaul on Monday the 17th. I should be back on the road home Tuesday afternoon. He's definately not the high pressure sales type. We're going to see what it looks like when its apart and go from there. He wasn't even pushing a mainshaft replace unless the pilot surface is bad. We'll see how it goes.



Kim

 

[Woodenhead]

You said it, not the high pressure sales type. He doesn't have to be, his expertise and product sell itself. After spending 15 minutes on the phone with him I drove 700+ miles to get him to do my 5600 conversion. It's the only time I've left a shop having 110% confidence in the work done and not feeling like I was somehow ripped off.



Mike

 

[KWentling]

Back Home

Thought I'd update you guys on my transmission overhaul. We pulled into Quad 4x4 Monday morning at about 8:30 and Dan drove us into Red Lodge and dropped us off at our motel. This gave him a chance to test drive the truck. He commented on the height of the clutch pedal (expected a worn clutch) and that it seemed to shift pretty good. My hard shifting was intermittent. Way worse at times. Shifted pretty good on the trip up there. He called the room at about 5:00 and wanted me to look at it. His wife picked us up and drove us out. Fifth gear was loose on the shaft, but the nut was still tight. He figured it would have been off soon. Main shaft was loose (endplay) when he tore it down but not as bad as some he had seen. Second gear syncro teeth on the gear and syncro ring had some slight wear on them. Everything else looked good. The clutch had a lot of lining left, but the fingers were worn uneven where the throwout bearing rides. (More on one side than the other. ) He said he had never seen this before.

The needles were still in the pilot bearing but it was dry. Unfortunately he couldn't point to the cause of the hard shifting. Maybe the clutch. Maybe just a combination of clutch, pilot bearing, worn second gear syncro teeth and ring and the endplay. I finally settled on replacing the second gear and ring, even though we both had a hard time seeing that as a problem. (I finally got him to say that if it was his he'd replace them just to eliminate them as a possibility) I went for the Torque King mainshaft and fifth gear, South Bend 350 HP clutch (hope this isn't the clutch in FATCAT's thread) ball bearing pilot bearing and the filter kit. Since the rear main was seeping a little, I had him replace that as well as the tailshaft seal that has pretty much leaked constantly since new, even after havin been replace three times under warrantee. Dan pointed out that the drive shaft appeared too long and was pressing against the rubber dust boot and maybe that was the problem with the seals. It looked like the carrier bearing may not have been properly seated from the factory.

He finished on Tuesday afternoon and we went for a test drive at about 5:00. Shifted smooth. Clutch was smooth. We put on about 50 miles and went back to his shop and Dan looked for leaks and checked the oil level. We went back to his office and I paid the damages. I left with 6 quarts of oil for the 4500 and a spare filter, and a filter kit for 5600 in the '04. He thinks that the filter is a necessity on that transmission and oil changes are important. He said the ones he's been into have had lots of brass and contaminates in the oil and bottom of the case and he thinks that has been the cause of the failures (bearings and syncros) he has seen.

All in all a very positive experience with Dan the Gear Man and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend him.



Kim

 

[CSnyder]

I used to live on your side of Gillette in Wyodak Heights just west of the power plant. Hope all goes well with your transmission. Chris