Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) O-ring the head

[ALehman]

After searching the forums, i saw posts about o-ring'n the head. Whats the reason for that and what all does it involve

 

[Smokin Ram]

oringing the head is a method used to control head gasket blow outs. a hand run machine cuts a grove . 12 to . 14 thou into the head around each cylinder (ie valves ) this ring will hold a wire that will when the head is tightened onto the block , squeeze the wire into the fire ring on the head gasket, ie the metal portion surrounding each piston. This dramaticly improves the reliability of your head and protects against high boost blow outs. you can stud the head as well this alone will hold aprox. 80 lbs(piers) and the head oring is capable of much higher boost then that when coupled with the studs. its not cheap, you have to mill the head to eleviate warps first, you can have it checked for cracks at the same time and have it ported while its off its not cheap but well worth it, the porting will drop your egts at least 300 degrees, i lost 350. the porting also adds power, but who ever does it has to be familiar with a diesel head, the sworl affect in the intake cannot be destroyed or you will be taking two steps back. hope this helps sorry if i went too far.

 

[TrqMonster]

When I blew my head gasket I had mine fire-ringed. The way I understand it is that the groves are cut into the block and not the head and then the wire is placed in the cut ring and the head crushes the wire down. Studs were put in at the same time. All this was done and recommended by Scheids. They have had other trucks with twins and such running a lot more boost than me with the same setup and have had no problems.



I have since been told Fire-ringing may not be benefiacial and that all I needed was studs, but its holding good now so who's to tell. If I didnt explain Fire-ringing correctly I'm sure someone will jump in and correct me.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

So lets all look into this a little, just what does a person need.



1. Who needs Fire Rings and who needs O-Rings, I like O-Ring because I've had good luck with it, some like Fire Rings, some have had good luck, some not... ... . opinions are open.



Jim

 

[mjoppie]

i too would be intrested in this comparison. i will be doing this to my truck this summer and would like to go the best route. what are the ups and downs of fire rings? o-rings are fairly cheap, and there easy. i have heard different things about fire rings and daily driving, whats the deal with that?



matt

 

[Glen Pratt]

Trqmonster is correct. It's the block that is grooved not the head. Cylinder heads can be o-ringed as well. Now I'm confused. I guess either way would work on a diesel. Now I have a question. If the o-ring wire was installed in the block, wouldn't the block have to be align honed so the deck height is straight across the block? I know if heads are o-ringed the heads have to shaved so they are straight. I was just rereading what I previously posted. Maybe some one can explain the correct way to install a cylinder o-ring wire on a diesel. Thanks, -Glen

 

[Glen Pratt]

I was just looking at Piers Diesel Research's website and it looks like using o-ring wire on the head and block is the way to go for high boost. I'm assuming to o-ring the block you would have to start with a bare block? Double o-ringing (head & block) is good for 85 psi? Pretty amazing what a little wire in a groove on each side of head gasket sandwiched between a cylinder head and block can do. I thought I understood the process. I guess I'm am mistaken in my previous post.

 

[Smokin Ram]

hi guys to clear this up " oringing the head is a method used to control head gasket blow outs. a hand run machine cuts a grove . 12 to . 14 thou into the head around each cylinder (ie valves ) this ring will hold a wire that will when the head is tightened onto the block , squeeze the wire into the fire ring on the head gasket, ie the metal portion of the head gasket surrounding each piston. This dramaticly improves the reliability of your head and protects against high boost blow outs. you can stud the head as well this alone will hold aprox. 80 lbs(piers) and the head oring is capable of much higher boost then that when coupled with the studs. its not cheap, you have to mill the head to eleviate warps first, you can have it checked for cracks at the same time and have it ported while its off its not cheap but well worth it, the porting will drop your egts at least 300 degrees, i lost 350. the porting also adds power, but who ever does it has to be familiar with a diesel head, the sworl affect in the intake cannot be destroyed or you will be taking two steps back. hope this helps sorry if i went too far. * you would have a hard timne gettting the block shaved ie takeing it out of the truck, the head is oringed, and you can get ti shaved flat at any machine shop (that you trust) ive done several and we own the machine for doing so, i hope this clears this up two different methods. cheers

__________________

 

[TrqMonster]

So isnt the prupose of Fire-rings the same except the grooves are cut into the block instead of the head? Or is the seal not as good since the wire rings are on the block side of the gasket? My head was shaved a little, checked for cracks and they also checked the block to see if it was warped, which thankfully it was not. I am just trying to understand the difference even though it is a bit late for me.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

There are a few ways to do the O-ring setup, doing the head is cool because you can send your head to a guy and he can O-ring it then send it back and yes this works well as I ran that setup for 2 years with ZERO problems, on mine I had had more wire protrusion than most but it still worked great, it does require a little more time and a few more re-Torques to get it to set so there is no liquid leaks..... no big deal,but what they have found is if you use a little less protrusion it still holds well and is easier on the end customer... ..... on my rebuild the O-Ring was not touched.



You can O-ring the block as yes you have to make sure it's flat... ... . specs are . 002 if I remember correctly and specs on the head are . 010... ... If you decide to run in the block and head both then you will have to run a copper gasket because both O-Rings can not be in the same place and there is not enough room on the stock fire ring for two O-ring's, any of these mixed with 12mm studs works very well, if you want to go up from there and have the motor out you can go with 14mm's... ... . can't comment on Fire Rings, same make them work some don't!



Jim

 

[Cooker]

you can stud the head as well this alone will hold aprox. 80 lbs(piers) and the head oring is capable of much higher boost then that when

I think the studs alone and 80psi is referring to the 3rd gens with the MLS headgaskets. I don't know that this applies to the 2nd gens also?

 

[Swayse]

I fire ringed mine, I cut the grooves in my head. Works for me. I didn't shave any off the head, I just told them to cut the grooves in it. I got about 3,000 miles on it, with alot of 62 to 63 psi runs. My buddy did the same, he has had good luck with his too, he makes more boost than I do.



Alot of different ways to do it, in the end, it just depends on how well the work was done.

 

[Glen Pratt]

Thanks for the lesson on O-Ringing 101. Definitely makes sense now. The best part of this site is people willing to teach others and the wisdom of the other members. Appreciate the lesson. Regards, Glen

 

[TrqMonster]

I have about 7000 miles on mine with the fire-rings and 12mm studs and it has worked so far. Hope I am one of the ones that the fire rings work good for.

 

[Bandit1]

each has there goods and bads, my firering setup has been working very well with grooves cut in the block and the head. i personally think that the 14mm head studs kind of seal the deal on the firerings. after seeing the crush achieve from the big studs, they make a tough setup. if i had it to do over i prob would have tried the oring in just the head first, for the fact of it being the easiest and simple and people like jim fulmer and many others have had great luck with it. however alot of pulling trucks use firerings and wont turn away from them. i love my setup, just cant wait to get a new turbo on it.

 

[Glen Pratt]

Bandit1, When you had your block o-ringed I'm assuming everything was apart? I see by your signature you have custom pistons and camshaft. Did you do a total rebuild at the same time? Just curious. Thanks, Glen

 

[Bandit1]

yes the entire motor was out, block was milled true, bored out, brand new head. the bearings in the motor showed alot of wear so i opted for a rebuild, and it was worth it. the race cam has made this thing quick, i havent cracked it over 30lbs yet bc i still have the stock input shaft in my transmission and i am worried about snapping it, i had always heard good and bad about a regrind cam, but after talking to doug, the cam he had made for my truck is awesome. mpg even went up, there are pics of the entire rebuild in my readers rigs page



just so no one gets this confused my motor is fire ringed, identical grooves were cut in both the head and the deck and a large solid ring was compressed in the grooves (haisleys design) a laser cut head gasket must be used, it lacks the stock compression ring on the gasket. there are different paths to take, oring head, oring block, oring both, fire rings in both, i have even heard of fire ring in just block.

 

[Glen Pratt]

Sweet. The bowls in your custom pistons are huge compared to the stock pistons.