Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Oil Analysis - High Chromium??

[fishjack1]

Having had my oil analyzed by Blackstone Labs the last 7 oil changes they keep mentioning that:



"Ring wear (chrome) is a little high again in this sample, this along with high viscosity and soot may show a possible combustion problem developing" "we don't think this is a major problem and all other wear looks good. "



I change my oil (Shell Rotella T dino) and filter (Fleetguard Stratapore) about every 3500 to 4000 miles. I have 189,000 miles on the truck.



I "think" my combustion problem is directly related to my mods.



My average chromium number is (5 ppm) the universal average they list is (2 ppm) - Anyone else out there with a similar setup getting this type of chrome reading?



I think I remember reading in one of the past TDR issues that a high chromium number could point to poor air filtration but my silicone average reading is (5 ppm) with the universal average shown as (8 ppm).



Thanks in advance...

 

[CumminsPower98]

My last sample to Oil Analyzers came back with 5 PPM Chromium and nothing was said about it. Before that going backwards they were 2,3 and 2. I Did have high silicone, which was 51 PPM from a K&N drop in filter though. This silicone number has been coming down now on every oil change since going to the BHAF.

 

[bmoeller]

By-pass filter time, maybe.

 

[fishjack1]

Thanks for the quick replies -



CumminsPower98 -

Do you use Blackstone or some other company for your oil analysis?

My highest chromium reading (in the last 7 tests) was 6 ppm.

My silicone levels have stayed very low even with the AFE Megacannon filter (not Proguard7) highest silicone was 6 ppm. I wish I had an analysis done back when I ran my old K&N filter just to see what the silicone levels were then.



bmoeller-

Sometimes I wonder what the levels would be without an oil filter that (to me) would be the only true way to determine what is going on with any given engine. I know that is a crazy idea and I would never try that.

I guess in many ways the oil analysis is a test of your filters ability to remove impurities from the oil.

The bypass idea has crossed my mind many times but I have so far decided just to keep changing my oil at fairly frequent intervals.

 

[CumminsPower98]

fishjack1, I have been using Oil Analyzers Inc.

 

[fishjack1]

CumminsPower98 - Thanks - I guess you told me that in your original post - I just had never heard of "Oil Analyzers Inc. " and thought you were using that as a generic term.

 

[JGheen]

I had my first oil analysis done a couple weeks back and my results were -



Chromium - 0 ppm

Silicon - 4 ppm



This was after about 3000 miles and I too have the AFE Megacannon air filter. I have about 150,000+ miles(not sure cuz my big tires have thrown it off in the last 20,000 or so miles) and like I said it was my first oil analysis. I got my sample kit through Genos and it was sent to Monitor.

 

[PUMPERDUDE]

If you've been turning up the heat (fuel,boost,timing?)don,t be surprized by the high numbers... I don,t have anywhere near your mods ,but when I first increased timing and fuel ,I did notice a spike in chrome and iron numbers . Hopefully yours will drop back down as mine have... I change oil every 5k miles and analyse every 10k. Delo 40 wt. Last analysis showed 0 chrome,6 iron,4 silicone@ 220k miles. That was by Monitor/Genos... Cheaper than Blackstone

 

[fishjack1]

I think on my next oil change I am going to send several samples to different oil analysis companies just to see if the results match. Not sure if anyone has tried this before but the results might be interesting.

 

[Ralph Wood]

I recently got an oil analysis report back on a 8. 3 Cummins in a large motor home after a trip to Alaska and back from Gainesville, TX. It showed a 4 ppm silicon. I looked on the back and it said some oils use silicon as an anti foam additive. It was Delo 400 15-40. I sent a sample of new Mobil 1 in and it said the moly was too high. It can be misleading. Since the oil was new I assume Mobil added it to the oil at the refinery. Silicon can also come from the gaskets on a new engine.

When using a submicronic bypass filter you already know what the filter will do. The oil analysis report is to check the engine for problems. When you have 100,000 miles since the last oil drain and the readings are about the same as they were at 10,000 you are doing it right. The 8. 3 had a soot reading of 0. 2 percent. Soot is what you have to watch out for with no oil drains. Even a 1/10th micron filter can't get it all. Cigarette smoke is about 1/10th micron. I can tell by the look and feel of the oil if the soot content is too high. One percent or less is ideal.



You might find the following interesting:



"EnviroSense

Department of Defense

Pollution Prevention Technical Library



Bypass Filter for Vehicle Motor Oil Introduction:

Gasoline and diesel fueled internal combustion engines require

lubricating oil to reduce friction and dissipate heat. The lubricating oil must be changed once the oil's effectiveness diminishes. Lubricating effectiveness generally does not deteriorate in high-quality oils, but what does occur is contamination of the oil with particles and a breakdown of the lubricating oil's additive package. The additive package, which can be 50 percent of the oil's volume is responsible for maintaining pH and preventing deterioration of the oil. Bypass filters are designed to remove smaller particulate than would normally be removed by the engine's normal filter so that oil changes are not necessary. Oil added during filter changing, and to replace burned oil, is normally sufficient to replenish the oil's additive package. "



Ralph

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I think on my next oil change I am going to send several samples to different oil analysis companies just to see if the results match. Not sure if anyone has tried this before but the results might be interesting.



I am currently doing EXACTLY that as part of my extended drain test with Delo 400 15/40 - took 3 samples, sent one to Oil Analyzers, Cat, and Blackstone - 2 samples back so far that WIDELY vary in results - also have 2 different NEW oil samples done on Delo by Oil Analyzes and Blackstone - THOSE varied widely as well... I'll be posting a detailed thread on the results of my test as soon as the last analysis arrives in the next few days...

 

[PUMPERDUDE]

How far you pushing that Delo Gary?

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Took first samples at 5000 miles - lots of towing - will shoot for sampling at 5000 mile intervals, out to 15,000 miles or until my conscience starts bothering me...

 

[amsoilman]

Just for your info on Oil Analysis... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... NO TWO LABS will ever read the same exact results! Too much variance between equipment, and some labs don't use the same type equipment or methods. Its like any engine, NO TWO will ever read the same results as different engines (even the same manufacturer) run differently.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[amsoilman]

fishjack1

Cummins lists Chromium wear rate of 6 PPM for a "NORMAL" Drain interval. Also if the "soot" level is above 3, it is considered elevated, and will increase the viscosity. (Thicken) If soot level is above 5, the oil should be changed.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[fishjack1]

Well Gary looks like I owe you some money for the bucks your saving me on the multiple analysis experiment.



I look forward to your findings.



Thanks for the info Wayne - I figured most labs use different analysis equipment and that would skew the numbers. I guess if you stick to the same lab and follow any trends on your particular engine you should be safe.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

NO TWO LABS will ever read the same exact results!



OK - that's a given Wayne - but on identical samples, about what percentage of difference would YOU suggest is "normal" or "acceptable" variance from one lab to another?



5% ?

10% ?

200% ?



MORE?



Careful now...

 

[fishjack1]

Wayne - you mentioned that



if the "soot" level is above 3, it is considered elevated, and will increase the viscosity



After double checking my Blackstone report I see no specific numbers on "soot". Maybe I am missing something?

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

After double checking my Blackstone report I see no specific numbers on "soot". Maybe I am missing something?



Look at the "insoluables" listing - I think that's where Blackstone places soot and similar contaminent levels...

 

[fishjack1]

Gary - I see the "Insolubles" Readings are -



Test Values should be: <0. 7

My Test Values were: . 5



That must be it - thanks