Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Oil pan gasket..

[JGheen]

With the transmission and clutch out of the truck, can the oil pan be removed by just jacking up the front of the engine and tilting it back far enough, without messing with the engine mounts, to gain some clearance around that crossmember? Or if the pan cannot be removed that way, can it at least be dropped far enough to remove the old gasket and install a new one?

Also, is it best to install this gasket with some RTV or install it dry?



Thanks, Joe

 

[JGheen]

Ok, since no one has really replied to this, I guess just tilting the engine back is out of the question.

So, since I do have to lift the engine some, how high do I need to go? What parts of the engine should I remove or get out of the way for lifting it other than the obvious things like intercooler boots/tubes and the fan shroud?

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Also remove the flywheel and block plate. After dropping the pan some, you need to remove the 2 bolts holding the oil pickup to the side of the block and the 2 holding the pickup at the oil feed into the block. Once the pickup is dropped, you can slide the pan out.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Joe, is it very tough to reinstall the oil pump & pickup bolts during reassembly by trying to reach in between the block and oil pan? Had to do that on a Bronco II once and what a PITA.



Vaughn

 

[JGheen]

Joe, is it very tough to reinstall the oil pump & pickup bolts during reassembly by trying to reach in between the block and oil pan? Had to do that on a Bronco II once and what a PITA.



Vaughn

I hear ya on that Vaughn, I assume it is, but I have to do this as the back of the pan is leaking worse and worse and I am running out of brake clean to clean it up every morning to prevent any of that leaking oil from getting on my new SBC. I have some good racheting wrenches that will probably be a big help to reinstall the bolts. But why did you mention removing the oil "pump" , isn't it just the pick up that gets in the way of sliding the pan out? Also, I can't remember from my rear seal install, but how far down do the main cap bolt heads come down? Do they pose a problem for sliding the pan out after the pick up removal?

 

[BPonci]

I have done quite a few of them. You can do it without pulling the trans. You do have to remove the d/s intercooler pipe, fan and valve cover to gain enough room to lift the engine up. The pickup tube isnt as hard as you think it might be. Takes some paitence but can be done. The job should take about 3 to 4 hours for the first time. Hope this helps. Have a great day!... ... ... ..... Brad

 

[JGheen]

I have done quite a few of them. You can do it without pulling the trans. You do have to remove the d/s intercooler pipe, fan and valve cover to gain enough room to lift the engine up. The pickup tube isnt as hard as you think it might be. Takes some paitence but can be done. The job should take about 3 to 4 hours for the first time. Hope this helps. Have a great day!... ... ... ..... Brad

Cool deal, thanks Brad!

So, you mentioned you have to remove the #6 valve cover as well to gain some clearance? On the fan, can I just unclip the shroud(after removing the coolant reservoir and windsheild washer tank) and let it hang on the fan as I lift the engine or is it necessary to remove the fan?

This is also going to be a good time to install my new Piers intercooler boots since i have to remove both sides.

I am going to remove the transmission anyway, just to be able to have great access to the rear of the engine as I want to check my rear seal install, install some new motor mounts and remove my exhaust easier, as a 4" down pipe doesn't slide down to well around the bell housing.

Also, my service manual states to only put some RTV in the front and the back, did you put some all the way around or leave the sides of the gasket and pan dry?



Thanks again, Joe

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

But why did you mention removing the oil "pump" , isn't it just the pick up that gets in the way of sliding the pan out?

I'm sure you're correct JGheen, remove the pickup only, not the entire oil pump. . .



Vaughn

 

[JGheen]

I'm sure you're correct JGheen, remove the pickup only, not the entire oil pump. . .



Vaughn

Cool, Vaughn, kinda scared me for a minute, I had to double check my service manual and it said nothing but the pickup has to be removed.

 

[41jay]

The oil pan gasket I had was leeking and no with the trans out the motor has to be liffted up 7 inches to clear the oil pump down in the sump. I had prof. tell me if it an't bad just watch it and add more oil. Dodge place will change it for you for 600 dollars as I was quoted sorry couldn't help more mine still leaks today

 

[JGheen]

The oil pan gasket I had was leeking and no with the trans out the motor has to be liffted up 7 inches to clear the oil pump down in the sump. I had prof. tell me if it an't bad just watch it and add more oil. Dodge place will change it for you for 600 dollars as I was quoted sorry couldn't help more mine still leaks today

Well, I would just let it leak but I have a new $1200 clutch that I would like to keep dry and oil free, so I would rather make an attempt to change it out for the measly price of $40 for a new gasket than ruining my expensive clutch. If it still leaks then so be it, hopefully it won't leak towards the back like it is now.

Also, the oil pump is up in the block towards the front of the engine, all I have to do is remove the suction tube. Don't know what kind of Cummins engines have the pump in the sump. When I was in that area 2 weeks ago changin my clutch and rear seal, I removed the seal housing, looked down in the sump and the suction tube ran from the bottom of the pan up to the front of the block where the pump is.

 

[Andy Redmond]

The oil pump is inside the gear housing. The sump ext. is what hangs down inside the pan. It has two m8 cap screws (10mm heads) that hold it to the oil galley port and two supportin bolts on the ds of the engine at the motor mount area (inside the pan) that thread into the block.



I usually install them dry with a bit of rtv around the flywheel and gear housing area. You can dab some rtv in spots along the gasket to help hold it in place while the pickup tube is reinstalled then the pan bolts started and torq. 'd in sequence. Too much RTV and it may cause the gasket to split.



An associate will just RTV the pan with no gaskets, so I guess that's an option, but he has a few tricks to allowing it to skin (RTV) then a torq. process.





I usually do the "BPonci method," its slow but effective. Gosh he's speedy! :-laf



Good luck

Andy

 

[JGheen]

The oil pump is inside the gear housing. The sump ext. is what hangs down inside the pan. It has two m8 cap screws (10mm heads) that hold it to the oil galley port and two supportin bolts on the ds of the engine at the motor mount area (inside the pan) that thread into the block.



An associate will just RTV the pan with no gaskets, so I guess that's an option, but he has a few tricks to allowing it to skin (RTV) then a torq. process.





I usually do the "BPonci method," its slow but effective. Gosh he's speedy! :-laf



Good luck

Andy

So the bolts that thread into the block are th only ones I have to remove, right? The two that hold it to the galley port should not have to be removed?



Also, your torque sequence you are stating is starting from the center on both sides and working towards the front and back of the pan, right? Is there a thread on the "BPonci method" anywhere I can reference?



Thanks again Andy,



Joe

 

[Andy Redmond]

Joe:



>>So the bolts that thread into the block are th only ones I have to remove, right? The two that hold it to the galley port should not have to be removed?



No, you need to remove the pick up assy to remove or shift the pan down and back for gasket r&r. The two fasteners at the "oil galley" and the two supports on the ds of the block, allow the pickup tube to be removed or to let it drop down inside the pan to remove it. If you leave it attached you'll have to fish the new gasket thru the bottom of the oil pan, not good.





>>Also, your torque sequence you are stating is starting from the center on both sides and working towards the front and back of the pan, right? Is there a thread on the "BPonci method" anywhere I can reference?



Yes, The "BPonci method" is what he described, jacking the engine up enough for clearance to drop and or remove the pan. You might search for some old posts by Evan Beck, I think it was he who suggested that the crossmember be sliced out with a plasma cutter, then re-welded when the pan R&R was complete. I don't recommend this unless you are a primo welder.



Good luck

Andy

 

[JGheen]

Ok, so lemme see if I understood you here.

When I have all the bolts removed that hold the pan on, I can drop it down just enough to remove the two bolts that connect the pick-up tube to the block, correct?

Then after the pick-up bolts have been removed the pan should be able to slide out, with the pick-up sitting in the pan, right?

I've got a good picture in my head from my Hanes manual and my service manual, so I believe that is how it should go. They both state to just remove the two pick-up bolts towards the front of the block, let the pick-up fall into the pan and remove the pan.

I'll do some searching for the Beck thread as well as see what I come up with on the BPonci method.



Thanks again Andy,



experienced advice is always a great help!



Joe

 

[JGheen]

Alright, I found some great posts in the search abuot removing the pan, so it should be easier when I am under the truck and everything is more illustrated. Seems like it is gonna be real easy since I will be pulling the trans to gain more access.



Just one other question, is it a good idea to remove the rear #6 valve cover or can I just get away with the fan shroud and intercooler boots only? Some of those posts from my search said I have to get the engine up about 4-5" from that crossmember and that is cutting it close to that valve cover. It is obviously no biggie removing it, but I thought I would just ask.



Also btw, doesn't the engine weight close to 1/2 ton in the truck? Just want to see what I need to set my cherry picker arm to since it has four settings of 1/2, 1, 1. 5 and 2 ton. I think I can get away with it on the 1 ton setting, and that should give me some extra length on it as well since the truck is lifted 7" in the front. :-laf

 

[Andy Redmond]

No four bolts that retain the pickup. A Cummins or Dodge manual would help more here. .



Two at "galley" (below oil pump on the front right corner of the lower block "skirt" and two more along the block (DS) then the pickup tube takes a sharp dive down into the abyss in the back of the pan, the extra two bolts likely support the tube from cracking from the weight of its length.



The pan has to slide down far enough to get your hands, tools to the fasteners, and requires that the motor mounts be loosened and the fan removed at a minimum so the engine can be jacked up for cross member clearance.



See the cummins parts illustration. .

 

[WMonroe]

It's not too hard if you take your time. I did mine in about two hours (but I did already have the transmission out for a new clutch). The pickup tube can be a pita, but I didn't remove the fan so if you do that should give you some extra clearance.

Will

 

[JGheen]

Thanks Will and Andy!



Andy, that scematic is just what i was going to ask if anyone had next. My service manual didn't have anything like that and that pic is just what I needed to clear up my illustration confusion.



So, you mentioned the fan, intercooler boots, but what about that #6 valve cover, can I go ahead and leave that on there. Was looking last night and it looks like I can get away with leaving it on there, but what do you guys think?



Joe

 

[JGheen]

Well, replaced the gasket yesterday and it sure was easy. Got the engine high enough to get the torque wrench in there to bolt the pick-up back up without any issues. Now it's time to put everything back together and keep my fingers crossed for no leaks.