once again dot regs and us

[rob10858]

ive been researching again, and i think ive found the magic words. you guys with rvs are fine unless you gross over 26001 lbs as im sure that you have heard. its guys like me that travel interstate in the pursuance of commerce that might want to listen to this. ill try to make this short and simple but im afraid as in every case the us govt language makes it hard to comprehend. "has a gross combination of 26001 lbs or more, inclusive[and in regular talk means including the limits specified] of a towed unit [your trailor] of more than 10000 lbs, and im sure that most of you guys are probably hauling trailors with that gvw otherwise you wouldnt be going interstate. okay, lets back up, what i read into this is that as long as you stay under 26001 lbs even if your trailor weighs over 10000 lbs you should be exempt from cmv restrictions. what ive posted before about the gvw on your drivers side door panel was explained to me wrong by the usdot man. am i missing something or have i finally found the undeniable fact that ive been preaching to those guys all along? theve told us that as long as long as your truck has a gvw over 10100 lbs and your trailor has a gvw over 10000 lbs, that you are commercial. thats not what im reading, and i have the printout to prove it. maybe i should have been a lawyer? nahh. . i think i like farming better. input?

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[B.G. Smith]

I guess if you get over the 18000# per axle or what ever it is that they could mess with you. I have been to both ends of the USA and haven't stopped at a scale or been bothered yet. There is a web site that addresses towing laws of all 50 states. If you are interested in it, holler and I will look it up. bg

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White 99 3500, QC, 3:55, auto. most options except leather, Line-X bed liner, fiberglass running boards Rancho 9000s, bug shield and window vents, black vented 5th wheel tailgate, 110 gal. aux. fuel tank.

 

[zzman]

You guys are talking about commercial operation, right?

I don't think a commercial drivers liecense is needed for
personal use.

 

[QRTRHRS]

Personnel use or not, with a few exceptions for ag purposes, etc. , interstate or intrastate travel as well as what state you are in, you may need a CDL. Like we have been discussing, if you are over 26k gross or combination or if your trailer (not travel) is licensed over 10k then it becomes a problem.

 

[Missouri Mule]

States mite have their own rules but in General if it is for personal use you don't need to have CDL or pull in at weigh stations.
Florida rules states that any vehicle which weighs or has a gross vehilce weight of 8000 lbs or more or 80"or more wide, transporting passenger you need a CLass D. I think you can go over 26,000 and have Class D if it is a for personal use. Will check out have book around somewhere.
The states are supposed to be updating rules so all states conform.

 

[B.G. Smith]

Try: http://www.rvsafety.com/state.htm

[This message has been edited by B. G. Smith (edited 02-04-2001). ]

 

[1BIG44]

Written on the back of my Class C North Carolina drivers license.
1. Any single vehicle with GVWR less than 26,001... .
2. May tow a vehicle with a GVWR less than 10,001 pounds.

To me number 2 says nothing towed over the 10,000 lb mark. So how does one legally pull a 13k lb 5'er.

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2001 Quad Cab 4x4 ETH

 

[rob10858]

in north carolina there is a class between commercial and private, im not sure what it is but one of my guys that lives in nc has one we went through this ordeal this summer. ask the dmv guys in nc. we dont have this class liscence in va. now you see what i mean about ambiguous and tricky laws can be in different states.

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[rob10858]

by the way bg thanks these regs will help us out, at least until they change again whenever that happens to be.

 

[Koa Man]

CDL requirements are SUPPOSED to be standard throughout all 50 states. At least that is what I was told when I had to attend the General Knowledge class and take the road test when CDL laws first went into effect here in April 1991. The back of my CDL says:
Class A: Comb veh 26001 lbs GVWR or more; towed veh in excess of 10000 lbs.
Class B: Single veh 26001 lbs GVWR or more; towed veh not in excess of 10000 lbs.
Class C: Veh less than 26001 lbs GVWR; designed to transport sixteen or more pass; or placarded for Haz Mat.

No class D or any other classes listed.

 

[QRTRHRS]

Packman,
Here is your answer, chapter one in Maryland's handbook: The "Maryland Truckers Map" is an easy to read source of valuable information for truckers that will make the trip through Maryland more enjoyable. Sorry, I could not resist.

1BIG44,
I have not found anything in writing about maximum weight limits on campers.

As far as standardized requirements:
You guys that for whatever reason are fortunate enough to live in a state where law enforcement may be more reasonable have to understand this. Here in the mid-alantic, some of these DOT guys think they are god. Sure, you can get your lawyer and perhaps prove your innocence after the fact. But they can make your life hell at the moment. Just ask packman.

 

[rob10858]

yes bg id like to see the state by state rules. as far as comm vs private use, who knows? some state wgh station signs read "all commercial vehicles", some say all vehicles over a certain weight, some say no buses or pickups. private use vehicles such as rvs and campers will probably never fall under dot regs, but if you are grossing over 26001 lbs who knows. ive never seen tour buses or greyhound buses stopping at scales, but they are most definitely commercial under the dot specs. half of my drivers never stop at scales [were all under 26000 gross]and in 15 yrs ive never had one stopped and ticketed. the guys that do stop are the ones getting harassed. a greyhound driver has to log time, do vehicle inspections, etc but doesnt have to scale. why do you suppose that is? dont you think that theres more than one comm busing co out there that vehicles that need new brakes, worn tires, improper lights? the purpose of weigh stations is to monitor and inspect over the road semis, not us. im not stopping anymore and if they want me i guess they'll just have to come get me and prove me wrong. if i get thrown in jail, i guess ill learn the hard way. in the meantime, ill keep my trucks and trailors in good operating condition and keep rolling.

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[rob10858]

like a said before guys, just keep your equip clean and make sure everything is in good working order. be polite and keep your mouth shut, and usually even the most hardcore dot man will cut you some slack. some views on the worst and the best, the guys in ga sc va wva miss fla ala really dont want to fool with you. watch out for nj mary nc [especially nc] tenn, and ohio. im sure some of you have had problemns in my "easy states" but all in all thats what weve seen.

 

[illflem]

My solution here in the west has been to never stop at the scales,never been pulled over in 35 years. One tip is that most of the patrol cars you see parked next to the weigh station aren't operational,they are just towed in for show. I've seen some that even have mannequins sitting in them to be more impressive.

 

[Eric_77]

Okay between what you guys have been asking and what some people I race with have been asking I did the research.

He is what I found

Commerce means (a) any trade, traffic or transportation within the jurisdiction of the United States between a
place in a State and a place
outside of such State, including a place outside of the United States and (b) trade, traffic, and transportation in
the United States which
affects any trade, traffic, and transportation described in paragraph (a) of this definition. definitions

What does this mean? so I called and was told basically if there is money to be made from you crossing the border then it is commerce doesn't matter if it is a service, product, or delivery. You personally don't have to make money at it but if you could you are in commerce the example given was if you race cars but never win but the winner does recieve purse then it is commerce if no purse then it is a hobby. I also asked about the tractor/landscaping someone asked about recently. If that tractor was to be used solely for personal use; no reselling of produce or work for hire, it is exempt.

I also asked at what point does this take effect? hold still get worried 3500 it takes effect at 10,001 lbs

What do you have to do? You must have an ICC or DOT number, insurance, and must maintain log books.

What about RVs? No restriction unless there is direct connection to commerce, pulling trailer that contains race car, product for sale/delivery etc that otherwise would make you fall into commerce catergory. There is no general RV exemption just most RVs do not fall into commerce area.

The details of this are found in 49CFR395 as far as log books and 10k limits.

States can and do set lower limits most Agri-biz states set paperwork requirements the same as CDL requirements 26,001#s. If you travel across state lines even if the state you are going to has limits set at 26k and you are under since it is interstate Fed rules apply.

What does it all really mean? They are not going to stop you just to see if you are "in commerce" but if you have a wreck and are over the 10 hour limit for driving or other violation then you could be in for a world of hurt.

I understand it is done for safety but geez 10k is really pretty low number I think. I like the 26k better. Finding all this out means I am no longer going to do out of state deliveries.

 

[rob10858]

eric, again it comes back to this 10100 lb limit. can you give me more on that. weve heard it and experienced it but i havent found that reg. again it all comes down to common sense as far as you and the state dot officers. no way should or could every one ton pickup be considered commercial. but taken literally, thats what the law states.

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[Eric_77]

It really isn't every one ton truck is is just if you are using the one ton for business reasons, delivery or provide service out of truck (like mobile machine shop). The regs are in 49CFR395 you can get this at most public libraries or you can call your local Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration Fireld offices for FMCSA

 

[rickhans]

I talked to an equipment dealer today that also sells trailers for hauling heavy equipment. He said that to stay under the 26,001 pounds that the GVW rating on the door jam of the truck plus the RATED GVW of the trailer must be under the 26,001, even if the trailer is capable of towing a heavier weight. For example, he said that a tractor weighing 13,500 pounds on a trailer weighing 6500 pounds was attached to a RAM with a GVW of 8800 pounds you would have to have a CDL unless the trailer was downrated to a max of 17k pounds. If trailer was rated at 17K with this load, he said the only violation is about a $30 fine for being overloaded, if I understood him correctly. He also made reference to a 16000 pound gross combined weight if you cross a state line. This I don't understand. Anybody know any more about this?

 

[Alan Reagan]

On the back of the CDL issued by the State of Georgia it states that you have to have the CDL in order to operate combination vehicles over 26000 lb GCWR and that you may tow trailers over 10,000 lb only with the CDL. Everything else except motorcycles is covered under the "lesser class" category. There is no caveat about it being for hire. It's purely a weight issue. I don't think you'll have a problem at scales or anything else because they are primarily looking for the 12,000 lb steering axle violation and 17,000 lb all other axle violation for a combined weight of 80,000 lbs. Georgia uses the Bridge law which says that if you are going to carry that much weight then there is specific spacing between the axles required carry the weight. Usually to get that spacing a minimum of 65 feet is required.

[This message has been edited by Alan Reagan (edited 02-16-2001). ]

 

[rickhans]

I think I see what may be happening relative to the 10k question. Perhaps this is why there is so much difference of opinion if I am interpreting all of the rules correctly:
1. Federal regs say you are commercial only if greater than 26001 lbs.
2. Texas says the same thing
3. Some states must say if trailor exceeds 10000 lbs it is commercial
4. If the states rules are less than the Federal Govt (requires CDL if trailer g. t. 10k) then you must be in a state of limbo because Federal rules don't apply because you are not commercial even though the state may say you are.

Is this a correct assumption above?
How many states require commercial CDL if trailer is greater than 10K?