Opinions on this analysis.

[Amianthus]

I got my oil analysis back and just wanted to get some opinions as to why the numbers are the way they are. So those of you "in the know", that have some time to look at these latest numbers, post your thoughts.



I have made the analysis sheet available from my website. Take a look at it and see what you think.



I think that my numbers may be skewed because the truck sat for a little bit after a long trip. But ran for about 3 minutes prior to taking the sample. I think that the oil may have stratified, causing a tainted sample.



But, if the numbers are correct, I am thinking that the soot level of the oil may have caused the resulting increase in wear products from the engine. If that's not the case, then perhaps the increased silicon may have something to do with it (Amsoil air filter). What concerns me is the drastic increase in lead, chrome, tin, and aluminum. I am hoping that those aren't the bearings telling me that something is wrong. The numbers themselves don't alarm me so much as does the increase. So what do you guys think? Where do you think I should start to look for problems? Or is this just a result of the modifications to my truck?



Opinions are welcome (that means you Gene!). Thanks in advance.

 

[Sled Puller]

Won't down load for me.

 

[Don M]

Gene,



They are XLS files. You need a spreadsheet program to open them up.



I use StarOffice some use Microsoft Excel.



Don~



Oh, some of the numbers are too high for a premium oil in my opinion.

 

[Sled Puller]

We should have took bets on what Dons opinion was going to be.



Amianthis,

E-mail the Amsoil banner vendor for his opinion.



That will take the Gene vs Don M bit out of the discussion.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I've nothing against synthetics - but virtually EVERY reasonably equivelant comparison of synthetic vs dino oil will show elevated iron wear rates, usually by a factor of 2 to 3 times the wear percentages when using synthetics... Dunno why that is, or what the long-term implications are, but that is what *I* have consistently noticed...

 

[Don M]

Originally posted by Sled Puller

We should have took bets on what Dons opinion was going to be.



Amianthis,

E-mail the Amsoil banner vendor for his opinion.



That will take the Gene vs Don M bit out of the discussion.

Geno,



If you look at the data you will see numbers that are too high for most guys comfort.





Amianthus, you might check with your lab and see if they offer ferrography. I know of one lab doing it now for about 100 bucks, maybe less. This will tell you exactly what is going on in the engine and from where the wear metals are coming from.

Looking at the trends it seems the bearings are showing wear and possibly the camshaft. Piston wear may be occuring too.

The ferrography would tell you everything and really give you a great look at what is going on.

The lead and tin are a bearing babbit material.



you might try this place for ferrography:



www.avlube.com Ask for George Morrison



Don~

 

[Riflesmith]

-Your soot values are too high. They should not exceed 1. 5%.



-Your copper number is high, but could be leaching from your oil cooler. Bearings are NOT the sole source of this metal.



-Your Iron at 53 is somewhat high.



-Your Lead is high at 25. Having it go from 4 to 25 in one sample could indicate a bearing wear problem.



I would ask you to look at your Silicon. It is very high at 19. Perhaps a change in air filters could explain this high number, but ingested dirt helps explain most of the high numbers you are seeing. Especially the Chromium and the Aluminum.



Regarding the Lead number. Have you recently started fueling from a tank on your property that used to contain leaded gasoline? Lead residue in an old tank recently placed in service could be the source of lead.



Your oil analysis company should have pointed out that Mobil 1 5W-30 was the wrong oil for your truck. Hope some of this helps.

 

[Amianthus]

Yeah, I was using Mobil1 when I was young and stupid. I had everything I owned on Mobil1 (easy to keep straight with what oil goes in what machine). But then I became educated in the ways of the TDR and switched over to the proper oil. I figure that my supplier of oil should be able to get his wife something nice for thier anniversary each year. At least now that I've switched everything over again.



Anyway, I know that lead and tin are components in the bearings. And althought the numbers aren't super high, the change really alerts me more than anything. As I stated earlier, I think that the increased iron is probably due to the high silicon. I had that battle once before. Just before I put in the air filter (had a hole in the stock unit).



I know that the oil cooler is the source of the high copper content. That's been determined already.



So out to check all my fittings and see if I'm sucking in dirt. If that's the case, then perhaps the combination of dirt, and elevated soot levels (super-mental injectors) could explain the elevated wear products. Including the bearings.



As a side note, how much blowby is too much? I do seem to have (what I would consider excessive) blowby. That would also contribute to my current situation. Just a thought.

 

[Amianthus]

One more thing...

I don't fuel on my own property. I always buy from the same station. Although, I did notice that they moved the diesel pump (same pump, different side). So that may have something to do with it. I have switched to another station (always looking for a better price). The new place is new and does move a lot of fuel. Not to mention, I always use an additive as a precaution.



Although, I let my 16 year old sister drive it for a week, and who knows where she got the fuel from.



So any other ideas? The ones so far are good.

 

[PRout]

Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q

I've nothing against synthetics - but virtually EVERY reasonably equivelant comparison of synthetic vs dino oil will show elevated iron wear rates, usually by a factor of 2 to 3 times the wear percentages when using synthetics... Dunno why that is, or what the long-term implications are, but that is what *I* have consistently noticed...

Gary, Ive noticed the same thing. Pretty "wierd" to put it mildly...

 

[Riflesmith]

Comparing Apples and Oranges

Gary-KJ6Q and Shortshift--None of the posts I have read on this site concerning analysis of conventional oil had more than 7500 miles on them. The reason you see iron numbers of 53ppm or more in synthetic oil analysis is due to the miles on the oil. 22,500 miles on synthetic oil is hardly comparable to dino oil at 7500. Put 22,500 miles on Delo and I will be happy to compare numbers.



Analysis on any oil will have iron in it. This does not mean the oil is not performing the job it was purchased for.



I run extended drains and when I trend my analysis results I ask one question concerning iron: Does the number from the latest sample represent a linear increase from the first sample? If the answer is yes, then no worries. I feel this way because if the iron increase is in fact linear, it is fine enough to get through my bypass filter. If it is a small enough particle to do this it is too small to cause wear.



If the increase in iron is not linear, and has increased greatly, then I would see things differently and look at the rest of the analysis numbers to determine the cause.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

LETS be absolutely CLEAR here - I was pointedly specific that my comments related to SIMILAR analysis between dino and synthetics - I'm no genius, but I *am* smart enough to recognize and comprehend the difference in test results between oils done at 100,000 miles and another at 3000 miles!



AND, when I have seen tests between dino and synthetics done at SIMILAR mileages and circumstances ie, bypass filter to bypass filter, etc. , INVARIABLY, the synthetics *I* have seen numbers on have displayed significantly HIGHER iron content, period!



As I also stated, I have nothing against synthetics, and the higher iron content I have mentioned MIGHT not have ANY significant effect on long term engine life - I just mention it as a point of interest and information as *I* see it... And NO, I don't have the SLIGHTEST intention of digging thru past posts on the issue to "prove" my opinion - if'n ya don't wanna believe me, and it makes ya feel better, ya can call me a liar as well as stupid...

 

[Riflesmith]

Gary,

I wasn't aware that you are the only member that was allowed to post your observations. Forgive my intrusion . I did not tell anyone they were stupid or call them a liar. It would seem that you should lighten up.

 

[Don M]

Im still surprised nobody posted about the nitration and oxidation on the Mobil 1 and the last Amsoil sample.



Don~



I would peform a 75 dollar ferrography test on the oil and see what is really going on here.



Don~