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2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Overheated front brakes after servicing

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spacecadet

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At 80K miles it was finally time to get new front pads. After dealer did service including fluid flush (the first one - can't imagine why this isn't in the maintenance schedule:confused:), I drove home 60 miles on the freeway and found both front brakes smoking hot -literally. Truck was trailered back to dealer who reported "seized master cylinder" and replaced at N/C . Is this possibly a coincidence or is it a botched repair job? Dealer did not want to replace pads. What would the signs be that pads got too hot for too long (60 miles!) and should be replaced? Don't want to find out the hard way.
 
You could measure the thickness. Inner and outer, both. I'd be more concerned about the rotors. Any discoloration or evidence of warping, like pulsating brake pedal?
 
What a coincidence, the brakes were serviced and then failed—which causes me to suspect what was done last (even if not botched) caused the problem. Did they bleed the calipers out when they spread them, or did they force fluid (and sludge) back into the lines. This could choke a rubber line, the metering valve, ABS (which should be checked or replaced under the covenant of concealed damage). Many of us do NOT bleed the excess out of the calipers - but that doesn't make us right - just lucky?? I would also wonder if a seal within the caliper got jammed and stuck the caliper - but that happens in onesy not twosy!!
 
If the dealer didn't use a pressure system designed to "properly" flush fluid and used the old fashion method instead (one guy pushing the brake pedal the other guy opening the bleeders) damage to the m-cyl is "probable". When extending the piston in the m-cyl beyond it's normal sweep (normal sweep = top of pedal to position where vehicle comes to a stop - typically 3/8 to 1/2 distance from top of pedal to the floor) and going full to the floor board when bleeding, the piston extends within the cylinder to an area it never goes to normally, this can score the piston/cylinder, or damage the piston seals. Typically when this type damage occurs the brakes don't work as well or not at all. To me it sounds like something in the system failed and caused a "check valve" (one way flow only) to be created, therefore not allowing pressure created when applying the brakes to be released when not being used. Usually this is related to an internally failed brake hose = a portion of the inner rubber becomes partially detached, creating a flap that allows fluid flow into the caliper - but not out of the caliper. This situation will keep a constant pressure, or drag, on the brakes. One of the first things I did when I purchased my 99 (in 01 w/75k) was to change all brakes and hoses - the rear hose was no problem locating but the front ones were difficult and I was only able to find at a dealer. For some reason the local parts house only stocked hoses for all wheel anti-lock brakes = the front hoses for the rear only anti-lock were very different.



I can't imagine a "dealer shop" not having / using the correct tool to do such a job - sooooo much easier/faster = cost efficient than the old fashion method. However, it comes down to the Tech doing the job.



I'm not sure if your 01 has rear disk or drum, I think rear disk on 01s only came if it had all wheel anti-lock, or were ordered as an option, not totally sure? Either way, I'd check the rear pad/shoes too. If you find the front and or the rears are glazed and the rotors/drums show signs of being heated, you should be having a conversation with the Service Department Manager about corrective action being taken, at no cost to you, immediately. If you face resistance you can suggest to him/her that you belong to a membership of over 35,000 supporting members owning "specifically" Dodge Trucks w/Cummins power-plants and you've posted your problem on the membership website for-which everyone is awaiting to see if the dealership handles your concerns appropriately. Never hurts to have friends.



If you check your brake pads/shoes rotors/drums and all is well you can mark this visit to the dealer as experience and rest easy.



It sounds like they recognize they screwed up somewhere, they changed the m-cyl at no charge, but it's a little disappointing they chose not to check to make sure the pads/shoes were "safe" for you to continue use.



Keep us posted - if you don't have good results with the dealer you may wish to post the city, state and their name so as to warn other members of their service tactics/practices.
 
Thanks for the ideas

No pulsation and the rotors do not look scorched/discolored. Service tech said he checked both front pads and rear shoes, and they are ok. Brake feel seems to be normal. Joe Mc - I have one of the rare 2001. 5 models with rear drums and 4wheel ABS that was an option. They reflushed all the lines (they said), but I will check the functioning of the ABS this week since we are expecting rain and a slick parking lot won't be hard to find in LA. I also want to check for brake drag after driving by jacking up a wheel and spinning because I still have a faint burnt brake smell. May just need to wash the wheels inside and out.
 
Space - it may be a good idea to make sure the glide areas are lubed (where the caliper rides on the mount) along with the mounting bolts.
 
In a car I had replaced the pads only to have the car pull and have one caliper piston stick. I removed the caliper, pulled the dust boot back and sprayed hell out it it with brake kleen. problem went away. Maybe take one pad out (or use old pads), reinstall caliper, press pedal to extend piston, remove caliper, then clean under boot, push piston back in... . reinstall.



Also I always check my 4 wheels with my hand to check if 1 is hotter than the others. Chech side to side, (check front to front & back to back, as the fronts will be warmer). this also checks bearing condition.
 
I have a 98. 5 24v w/ rear drum brakes and no antilock(i think). I am having an ordeal where the truck steers to the right when I apply the brakes. I have heard a few reasons why the truck would steer to the right when braking, like the pistons or brake lines being clogged causing the truck to brake harder on one side than on the other causing it to steer to the right. So I have taken off the left front wheel (which, in theory would be the on that should be braking less to make the truck go to the right) to get at the brake and see if it is spinning freely. Once I take the wheel off, just the opposite going on, it takes a lot of power to spin the rotor, so much so that I can barely spin it by grabbing the bolts that the lug nuts go on. So my question is, is this normal, and if not what could be the problem. As soon as I have posted this I am going to take the right wheel off and see if it is any worse. Does anyone have any ideas before we take it to the mechanic.

Will
 
Last edited:
KLauber,

I think you would have better luck if you start your own thread, but I do have a theory. The left caliper is hanging up just enough to cause brake fade on the left side, which would make the truck go right. It could be a bad caliper or brake hose. Does it pull to the right right after you start going and the rotors are still cool? You don't have to take the wheels off to spin the rotors, just jack the tires off the ground.
 
Correct

G Ames ,

Your therory is correct!

And the spin test method is also the eaisest to perform!



Simply jack up the whell and give it a spin.

Less than 1 revolution = calipers sticking / Brakes dragging.

1. 5 revs fair at best. .

2 revolutions is good... .



Do you want your front brakes to last a long time?

Grease the caliper bolts and glide points every 1000 miles or less.

If you drive offroad or in wet (even rainy) conditions you need to lube the even more often. .

Check out the link to my "old readers rigs" photos.

There's lots of good tips there.



SFB



PS be sure to let us know what you find.

Us arm chair mechanics rely on your feed back.

Thanks

SFB
 
I know I dont have to take the wheel off, I just wanted to see if there were any noticeable defects. I will spin it again when I get home this afternoon and let you know. Im guessing it will spin one revolution or less.



Will
 
I just did the left one. The best I got out of it was a 1. 25 revolution, the average spin was about . 75-. 80. The right ones best is atleast 2, and on average a 1 rev or higher.
San Felipe Bob, which parts on the caliper are the ones that need to be greased? do i need to take it off to grease them?
 
disassemble

Yes you need to take the caliper off to lube it.

You may also have a sticky piston in the caliper or possibly a ballooned brakeline.



Lube all contact points of the caliper where it touches the spindle bracket as well as the pins and rubber boots.



You should be able to slide the caliper back and forth with relative ease.

Try this:



1) Remove the pads and reinstall the caliper without the pads.



Then grasp the caliper and see how easy it slides on the pins.

It should slide back and forth really easy... . Like buttaaa. .



Sometimes the rubber boots get hard (especailly if you have got the brakes hot a few times).

When they get hardened they are junk and need to be replaced.



I just got 37k miles out of my last set of pads. :)



Keep us posted on the out come.



SFB
 
We know its not ballooned brake lines b/c we got that fixed when we got the truck. We know also that our mechanic checked the front brake assemblies when the rear shoes got replaced, and said that the rubber boot on one side (cant remember which side, if not both) had a boot that was cracked or torn and also said that it would be easier to replace the caliper. Anyways he tried to fix the boot best he could, but still said it would need to be replaced.

Also, to cause the truck to steer one way or the other, one of the brakes is not braking as hard or harder than the other side. Could there be air in the lines or could there be dirt and gunk clogging the piston on one side. (the brake fluid seems to be dirty)

Will
 
Could there be air in the lines or could there be dirt and gunk clogging the piston on one side. (the brake fluid seems to be dirty)



Yes to all of the above... ...

You should change out the fluid for sure.



Could also be a wheel bearing failure ?

Mine just went out at 306k.



SFB
 
I dont think its a wheel bearing, its only got 167k on it! (still gettin broken in) But I will see if i can get the fluid changed, and have the lines flushed.
Thanks

will
 
Problem solved - finally

Here's the resolution of the dragging/overheating front brake problem. After the truck was trailered back to the dealer, he kept it two weeks, between diagnosing and having to order parts and return a hydrobooster that was defective out of the box. It was this booster that was bad - hard to find because it took at least 20 miles of driving to cause drag. In the process of finding this the dealer replaced the front brake lines, calipers, pads, and finally the booster. He charged me only for the cost of the booster and the labor for it alone. Problem is solved. It is hard to see how the original work (brake pad replacement and fluid flush) could have been the cause, since the booster runs off the power steering fluid loop, so I think the dealer was more than fair in his charges.



One interesting coincidence is that my mpg computer is now misbehaving. The instantaneous mpg reading always decreased/increased smoothly as I applied/released the throttle. Now it makes large jump to very low and very high numbers as I do this. Under steady throttle the mpg is steady and reasonably accurate. From what I've seen in older threads dating back to around 2000, the inputs to the computer are wheel speed and the TPS output. Seems like an odd thing to have gone south as the result of brake work. Yes they were working near the wheel sensors, but the constant

throttle mpg is steady and reasonably accurate. The noise is definitely related to throttle position changes. Oh well, at least I have brakes again.
 
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