Archived P2002 code and Dealer Questions

[nmurray]

I have a 2010 3500 C&C (old body style) it has 58900 miles. A Check engine light came on and I pulled over and cycled the key 3 times to receive the codes P0700 and P2002. The P2002 is a particulate filter efficiency low code. I took the truck right to the dealer and they said that Ram told them to remove and send out all 6 injectors to be tested. They said that if all 6 injectors tested OK then I would have to pay for the cleaning and testing. I said that since the engine and emmisions system are under warrenty untill 100K/5 years I should pay nothing. In addition they said that if a injector failed it would be due to the filtration system and that I would have to pay $2000 for a severe duty fuel filtration system. I called the customer line and after 3 business days got a hold of a "case manager" who just repeated what the dealer told me. I asked over and over again why I would be responsible for the injector cleaning/testing since Ram tech told the dealer to perform. He said that injector cleaning was a maint. issue and not covered under warrenty. I asked him to show me/send me the documentation of the mileage/time requirement that calls out for injector cleaning. In addition he had no response on the Severe duty fuel filtration system. The only one that I could find was the Mopar one for about $235 not $2K. Has anyone else been told this BS? I asked to talk to a supervisor and was told that I would have to wait an additional 3-5 days. What a joke. I spent a lot of money on my truck. I change the fuel filters between 7 and 12 k miles. I change the oil every 3500 to 5000 miles. I have oil analysis on every oil change and never showed any fuel dilution. Help please?

 

[HBarlow]

I've never heard such outrageous bs and would be outraged if I was told that. It is illogical and unacceptable to tell the customer that the OEM fuel filtration system is inadequate and he is responsible for paying for an expensive additional filter system. I've had zero problems with my '08 C&C and it has been out of warranty for a year or so now with 118k miles so I'm at a loss for what to suggest.

My next step would be to pm sag2 or Mike Mullenax or both. They are both TDR members and Ram diesel mechanics with real knowledge. Perhaps they have encountered your situation and have better advice. I hope that is not actual official Dodge Ram policy those clowns have told you.

I tried a couple of times several years ago to ask the Dodge customer service line technical questions about our trucks and the 6. 7 emissions system. All I ever got was rude children who had no clue and either hung up on me, promised information that never came, or handed me a line of nonsense. I would never again contact Dodge customer service. I could get more intelligent information from my female German Shepherd.

 

[jgillott]

What dealer are you using here in PA? I have a few local options for you if needed.

 

[nmurray]

Diehl is the dealer. It is the only dealer near Pittsburgh with a lift that can handle my truck. It might be a 3500 but it is always 11500 to 12000 lbs. Non C&C dealers will not even look let alone work on my truck. This is one of the many reasons I do all my own filter changes. It takes me less time to do the change than finding a dealer that can lift the truck.



I can not believe that with the splitting off of Ram they do not have a customer line with people that know a little bit of something.

 

[jgillott]

I've sent you some info via PM

 

[tp0d]

PM here as well... havent had a 'good' experience with 3 PGH area dealers, including Diehl

-j

 

[nmurray]

I just got off a call with a Ram Customer service supervisor. He told me that this is a maintenance issue since it is not a defect in parts or material. I asked about defect in design and he told me that that is not covered under the warranty either. He also said that a plugged DPF is a maintenance issue. I asked him how a DPF gets clogged and he said that he did not know. He also told me that there is no one higher than him to talk to.

If anyone has had a P2002 or clogged DPF under warranty please PM me what was repaired and what you were required to pay for. If you paid out of pocket, performed the fuel filter changes on schedule, and do not have any engine modifications I want to hear from you for sure.

 

[jgillott]

Wow. I wasn't expecting that answer. Maybe I've been hiding under a rock, but this is the first time I've heard of Ram denying an emissions system warranty claim on a stock truck. Is the warranty terms the same on the CC trucks as they are with the pickups?

 

[rrl989]

I hate reading threads like this, makes me question whether or not to move away from Dodge, oops, Ram. GM has done a 180 on customer service,
warranty is warranty, I don't need any BS.

 

[HBarlow]

I'm confused. How did we jump from bad injectors and a requirement to add an additional fuel filter system to a bad DPF?

I'm only getting third hand information but I think your problem begins with an incompetent parts changer at your Dodge dealer. Once you get an incompetent parts changer passing bad information to a stupid service manager and service department feeding wrong information to Dodge customer service you're doomed.

You're only hope to recover from this without being raped and robbed is to locate a Ram dealer with a competent Cummins mechanic.

The only dpf that has been replaced by the owner that I am aware of is by EB who had one failed due to soot fill at somewhere around 250k miles. I think he reported the cost was estimated at $2500. I'm reporting the odometer miles and cost estimate from memory so neither may be completely accurate.

You could simply remove the dpf if it is indeed full which is odd if you haven't been seeing a continual stream of check engine lights and trouble codes.

 

[Bob4x4]

dpf's do not fail at low miles on their own,If it fills up too fast the root problem needs to be found,over fueling driving with dtc's that block the regen process and once in a great while the duty cycle. If there is fuel contamination that is causing the issue the dealer is correct in saying corporate will not pay

 

[HBarlow]

That explains the jump to bad dpf but if there is reason to suspect a bad injector is causing excess sooting and filling the dpf shouldn't the dealer remove and test the injectors under warranty on an engine still within warranty?

Why should the op be forced to pay for testing under warranty?

 

[Bob4x4]

If there is contamination it belongs to the customer otherwise warranty. The 6. 7 injectors are holding up much better than the 5. 9's in my experience

 

[HBarlow]

Bob,

That sounds like exactly what I would expect but who pays labor to remove and inspect the injectors? Seems to me that should all be warranty but if it is later determined that all the issue was caused by fuel contamination I can understand that the repair would become customer pay. Do you agree with that?

 

[nmurray]

. Gentlemen,



The Check engine light and P2002 code kicked all of this off. I have changed my fuel filter every 7k to 12k miles with the exception of the 2nd filter change when I had the dealer do it (it was snowing and 10 degrees outside). I have never had a "water in fuel" light come on, ever. I have never had water in the fuel that I drained out of a canister prior to a filter change. None of the filters that I changed looked that bad. I have never had to clean much debris from the bottom of the canister. If the injectors are worn out it is either a material quality issue, bad filter housing that allows bypass, or a design issue where the filter becomes blocked the common rail pump sucks hard enough to draw contaminants through the media. None of these situations should be a customer pay situation.



The truck drives fine the fuel economy is within reason (I still wish I got the 18. 5 mpg that my 2002 got but it was only 9K). My truck is 11. 5K and 12K all the time. In 2010 my average mileage for the year was 13. 24 mpg (17548. 3 miles, 1325. 779 gallons). In 2011 I purchased a trailer and pulled it fairly often mileage was 12. 98 mpg (26655. 0 miles and 2053. 902 gallons) for the year. This year I have done more trailer pulling so far and my mileage average is 12. 75 mpg (13980 miles and 1096. 555 gallons). My trailer weight is between 10K and 6k. I do not believe that this is a dealer issue. I believe that it is a Ram issue. They are setting the policy of what they are paying for.



If the injectors are dribbling (needle valve fails to seal completely) this can be due to two things:

1) Contamination of the fuel and dirt has worn the seat unevenly preventing the needle from sealing correctly.

2) Needle or nozzle material defects leading to a cracked tip or needle seat pounding/deformation.

 

[jgillott]

Where is your truck right now and in what condition is it in? If they haven't started work on it yet, I would get it out of there asap and source someone who can accurately diagnose what is going on with it, if anything.