Competition P7100 is a slug, do I need my VP44 back?

[Roger rodbolt]

Where are the fire breathing ponies that the P7100 pump is supposed to deliver?? I converted my VP44 to a '913 P pump with Piers 4000rpm GSK, 0 plate and just over 20mm rack travel. With small injectors the trucks runs about like is should if you were going to loan it to your brother-in-law and it runs fairly strong with Bully Dog 8 injectors. Would guess that I'm down 100-150 hp from the VP44 with proven electronic enhancements . Engine runs smooth, pulls to 4000rpm, smokes alot (off boost) but the power is disappointing. I know that I need more fuel pressure as I'm still running the ISB custom system at 25lbs and can pull it down to 20lb fuel pressure on a long run but even if I shut down one pusher pump (less pressure) it doesn't affect power much.



$3000 race pumps may only be considered if donated, remember reman'd VP44's are less then a grand. Any ideas??



Larry

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Larry, I would like to know the details about the pump off line(PM).



Jim

 

[TxDieselKid]

wanna trade?



could it be LOTS of varibles that out done by the electronics, i. e. timming, injector pop-off, injector lines, rack travel, fuel system before the pump,..... and so on, and so on, and so on?

 

[Roger rodbolt]

Jim,

Pm is coming.



TxD,

What have you to trade? Hope its 4x4, manual transmission and VP equipped?

Larry

 

[Strick-9]

Roger,



I'm not surprised. I've seen a few conversion trucks and driven one. I've never been too impressed with their power output. It's one of those topics most people don't discuss because it's such a large chunk of change for the swap. Most people try to rationalize the expense.



At least now you'll have a more reliable pump.



I'm sure I speak for several when I say I appreciate your honesty though.



Best bet is get it on a dynojet and tune it. Adjust fueling levels, boost levels, and timing until you find the best power for the RPM range you want.



-Chris

 

[KLockliear]

There's a lot of setup in one of those kits... everything has to be right or the whole deal is doomed from the get go.



Start with the pump... where did that come from? How many miles on it? Who did the setup? What lines did you use? FP >20psi at all times at the inlet? Do you see white smoke?

 

[Big_DQ]

Larry,



I don't know what you did but dad's runs like a bat out of hell... And the smoke..... :--) give him a call and talk to him about it he may be able to help Don't get call Dad.



LOL



Doc

 

[TxDieselKid]

Originally posted by Roger rodbolt

TxD,

What have you to trade? Hope its 4x4, manual transmission and VP equipped?

Larry

Larry,

I think once you get that thing dialed in, you'll be a lot happier with it. As was stated by Chris, and Keith, do some tuning, then see how you like it.



If you STILL don't like it, then I got a VP on mine we can swap out! I would LOVE the reliablity of the "P".



Andrew

 

[Roger rodbolt]

Keith,



Pump is from blown core engine that I purchased, don't know the miles but didn't appear as high mileage, not a lot of wear on pump linkage. I did all the work on the pump myself, 4000 governor spring kit set one to two clicks less then stock (. 052" stud measure), medium spring (TST) in AFC which if full forward as is star wheel. Looking for more fuel I turned in the allen screw in the rear of AFC to the max (one thread of locknut) to move the AFC arm out of the way. Governor arm adjusted to bottom of smooth 0 plate. P7100 lines are from Scheid's as they recommended. Stock 181 delivery valves. New fuel pressure bypass on downside of P7100 and I see 25lbs at idle and 22lbs underpower (can pull to 20psi rarely) at the inlet of the '913 pump. I know that you mentioned (by phone) timing is confidential but from what I have gleaned from others and tried, I'm in the ballpark. I've located TDC accurately and plan to order a timing light adapter tomorrow for more research on timing. Trucks runs good with showerhead injectors, but not making enough power to compete at Muncie!! DD1 injectors ran about the same as with a VP44, strong ECM and timing box only. Thanks for the interest and any advice. Larry

 

[Roger rodbolt]

Doc,

I may need to talk to "Dad" again, but I'm running nearly the same setup as he is. Timing is what he recommeded and I've triple checked that with others. My pump is setup is similar with the exception of delivery valves which may be why he is smoking so much. Still tuning, trying, while reminiscing my former performance. Larry

 

[banshee]

Larry,



Do you know if the pump has ever been on a test stand to be fully calibrated? If not I'd highly suggest pulling the pump off and sending it to a shop (such as Scheids) that can properly set up the pump to ensure proper pressures, etc. There is a lot that can go haywire in these P pumps that a test stand can easily sort out. To me, it's simply amazing the difference you will get from having the pump worked. Ask my dad (John_P), JR Adkins, or Keith Livingstone (Rammin On) how they like their pumps now.



John

 

[Rob Thomas]

Originally posted by Roger rodbolt

but not making enough power to compete at Muncie!!

Ya don't say? LOL



Sorry, I couldn't resist . I really hope you get it working correctly, good luck.



Later, Rob

 

[Roger rodbolt]

Rob,

You should visualize me on the sidelines at Muncie, cheering you on... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... I may be interested in a pit crew position.

Don't give up on me just yet, if worse comes to worse I save every part to convert back and haven't cut my head as of yet. I may be the only truck to convert, then revert

Larry

 

[Sled Puller]

PROOF!

Just as the properly valved 12 valvers always suspected--



Cummins went to the bug zapper pump, becuase with all those extree valves, the motor did not have enough power to run the P-Pump. :{

 

[Huff N Puff]

Thought this might interest you

I ran my 24 valve engine with the old vp44 at MIR against two trucks with the 7100 pumps modified for the 24v I consistantly ran about a . 5sec faster than both trucks.

 

[esommer2500]

As ole' Sleddy implied, you got too many valves. One guy that I talked to transplanted the pump, front cover, and head on his '02, and liked it a lot. I don't really know if it would help, or if it is even a viable option for you, but it might be something to consider. Good luck with whatever you decide, and we'll see you in Muncie to see what you came up with!



Eric

 

[Jetpilot]

Huff N Puff



Give me some time to get the truck tuned and then lets meet at the track..... I will say that a p7100 24v truck is going to take some tuning. No longer can someone just plug in a box and throw in some injectors to make it all work. But I feel that once the time is spent that this combo will create very consistant reliable HP.



Doug

 

[LSMITH]

LMFAO@bug zapper pump!!!!!! Good one Gene!!! :-laf :-laf :-laf

 

[KLockliear]

Your report above sounds like too much injector and not enough pump.

 

[Huff N Puff]

Hey Doug good to hear from you.

Just a thought,about the 7100 might dyno well,or work well with nitros or have lots of power in a narrow band,but I dont think it will have the range of power the VP44 has. because the VP44 has better timing controll than the 7100 could ever have. In a diesel timing is critical. It would be like comparing a carburated engine with a standard points ignition and running that same engine against an engine with computer controlled fuel injection and a computer conrolled ignition system. There would be no comparison. The computer controlled system would use less fuel and produce more power. The only plus is that it It might be more dependable. I'm sure I'll hear from a few of you, that might want to en lighten me. Doug I'll be working on my truck this week if everything goes well I'll see you at Capitol on the 18th. Some healthly competion be good for both of us. Merv