Peculiar oil sample results

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Just got my results back from the last sample on my '98 and a couple numbers jump out at me, particularly silicon and lead (see report here, click on picture to get larger version): Image of Oil Sample 98 Ram - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting



This sample has 14,500 miles on it, Amsoil 15w40 without bypass filtering, 1 filter change around 8000 miles (Stratapore). I ran about 250 gallons or so of WVO mix on this oil change. I'm puzzled as to why the lead count is almost as high as the iron count, but the tin is at 0 which makes me think it's probably not bearings.



Also silicon is high, but I've checked my BHAF and intake and all is clean as a whistle. These numbers are higher than when I had a bad K&N on my '01 which let a lot of visible dirt through.



Another interesting thing is I put Bosch 300 injectors in about the time I put this oil in, yet the soot level is the same as the last change (which was run only about 9800 miles on stock 180 injectors).



Vaughn

 

[cj hall]

oil

Hello Vaughn



Have you ever tested new oil to see what is in it as far as lead and silicon levels this might be a new way of making the oil for the new engines. The people that tested it thought it was ok so maybe they know something that makes it allright.



My oil is due for a change in about 300 miles ,Will be looking at the levels also.



cj hall

 

[PRout]

I also had high silicone numbers after doing an injector swap. Ended up determining that it could be coming from the air horn bolt threads that require some silicone, or maybe it is leftover from removing a gasket. Not sure. Had normal iron and other wear metal numbers so Blackstone commented it looked like sealant and I did some research and found that can happen when you open up an engine. .

If it were me, I'd change the oil and give it 5k miles and take a sample. Also, would consider one of the newer Amsoil nanofiber bhaf style (4510 for example) air filters. Wouldnt hurt to change it out and recheck all mated surfaces for leaks just to be sure. JMO

 

[steved]

Silicon can be an additive in oil as well as poor air filtration... the lead could have been from a particle "streak" in a bearing or fuel additives...

And coming from a guy who has dealt with hundreds of thousands of environmental samples, ask the lab to run it again to see if the high lead is actually there... or wait until the next UOA to see if it "goes away"... might be nothing more than a instrument glitch.

steved

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

cj it seems like the oil additive numbers changed a lot between the two samples, almost like it was totally different oil. There was about a 16 month span between when I bought the oil both times but the oil on the last sample was bought about August or Sept 2006. I almost wonder if the lab got some results mixed up and they're from someone else's rig, but some of the other numbers look like it came from mine. The bottles are labeled with the number corresponding to the form completed with the sample so this should eliminate mix-ups.

PRout it could've just been silicon RTV from the intake like you say, dropped in there during the injector swap.

Anyway I'm just going to run my normal interval and see what the next sample brings. Might send off two next time, one to OA and one to Blackstone.

Vaughn

 

[PRout]

Yeah, This is what mine looked like after trying 2 different sets of injectors.

Note: I only used a small amount of silicone on the air horn bolts and NOWHERE else. Used a new valve cover gasket and new air horn gaskets as well but without any sealant in those places. Note, wear metals are normal, air cleaner mating surfaces are tight.

Better copy: http://66. 214. 238. 173:13200/Truck%20Pics/Oil_Analysis/oil_analysis_082007.jpg

Added Afterthought: Also used the airhorn bolts as injector removal bolts (screwed them in the top of the injectors and used needle-nose pliers to pry them out with). Could have dropped some old residual silicone onto the top of the head. probably not a good thing, but something to think about. Better to use bolts that dont have any silicone on them for that purpose. (just a possibility that could be where it came from).

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

OK I just got another oil sample done on the '98 and the LEAD reading is even higher. Should I be concerned?

STATS:
15,258 miles on oil
180,123 miles @ oil change
Amsoil 15w40
Stratapore filter, 1 in-between filter change @ 8000 miles
One injector change done, also did an injector swap in the previous cycle.

See link in first post for last sample with about 15000 miles on the oil. I will scan the new one tomorrow. Comparing the two samples:

Lead jumped from 35 to 49
Aluminum went from 9 to 12
Chromium went from 4 to 10 (this concerns me)
Iron went from 39 down to 35
Silicon went from 15 down to 12

Some other things to note: my air filter was very dirty, I finally replaced it. Also I plan no injector changes this cycle so we'll see if that affects anything. I have a theory rusty junk off the air horn bolts falls into the intake when removing them (this happened on my '01 but at least you could get into the intake and wipe it out, not so on my '98). Another theory I have. . . maybe unleaded gas has a little bit of lead in it. I ran 95 gallons of (gasp) unleaded through my rig during the last OC cycle.

It looks like with my injector change (to 215s) my soot level has dropped, total accumulation over 15k miles was just 0. 12%, previous two were . 45 and . 32%

Vaughn

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Back to the top, no thoughts or comments?

 

[cj hall]

oil tests

Hello Vaughn



There are so many thoughts on this subject I think no one wants to get in to it.



All the tests I have done on my oil it looks like a good ride in the hills up and down but it always is fine . leads me to think unless something big happens all is fine, ROD OR MAIN GOING SOUTH is big. the engine should show wear thats a given.



I will countune to test lookng mostly at the nitration of the oil and the soot level in same

The oil changes with the batch its made in so it will change all the time. .



the soot comes from the diesel fuel mine shows zero for the last three oil changes that's when I droped the kerosene from the blend.



cj hall

 

[PRout]

As cj says, we're probably thinking or asking the same questions as you. . Kind of does look like possibly a dirty air cleaner may have caused some wear. At least that has been changed. Hopefully, you are seeing some lead from the gas, but the unusual across the board wear with high silicone numbers we already know is generally a flag.

Just be glad you took the sample and caught it relatively early! Will be good to see better wear numbers with a new load of oil and air filter.

Added: Just a thought, I wonder if running a load of 5w30 through it for a thousand miles then changing back to the 15w40 would be kind of like a "safe" engine flush?

 

[steved]

Ummm, Blackstone?

My UOA from two weeks ago came back looking very odd too... everything was elevated a point or two... almost like they had their instrument contaminated from a previous sample???

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Steve I am thinking to use Blackstone from now on, I don't have a real high degree of confidence in Oil Analyzers. I would've thouht a lead value of 49 would constitute a Critical flag, but nope no flag at all I don't know about those guys, they didn't run the history like they normally do even though I checked the "vehicle previously sampled?" box.

Vaughn

 

[steved]

Blackstone is the one I had the funny results from, but at least they flag anything seriously abnormal (they flagged lead at 9ppm).



I hate to say run another sample, but... have you been using a lot of fuel additive by chance??

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Blackstone is the one I had the funny results from, but at least they flag anything seriously abnormal (they flagged lead at 9ppm).



I hate to say run another sample, but... have you been using a lot of fuel additive by chance??

Yes I've been using a lot of Amalgamated, along with Amalgamated cetane boost. Any chance the lead is coming from there??



Vaughn

 

[steved]

Very good chance... I know I have read about the fuel additives causing elevated lead levels before. Maybe ping the lab and ask?

 

[cj hall]

Lead

hello vaughn



how much are you using I use a lot also and showing zero on lead ???? 78,000 miles as to your 180,000 ???



cj hall

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Using about the same amount you recommended CJ. It ends up being roughly double to triple the amount normally used on a tank of plain #2.

The engine sounds great on my '98, lying underneath of it while idling doesn't reveal any abnormal sounds, no dull pounding sounds. But at 49ppm it would probably take awhile before a bearing really started having a problem. You just don't hear about Cummins engines having bearing problems so that gives me even more reason to think it's coming from some external source. I think the health of the engine overall is excellent, has very very little blowy and never drips on the driveway, compression is great and it burns clean. Even burning 100% #2 with the Bosch 300 injectors it smoked very little.

 

[steved]

I would try another lab, see if the results are close... could be lab error, which isn't uncommon.

 

[cj hall]

oil sample

hello vaughn



go to the CAT Dealer and get an oil sample kit should be 15. 00 and some change they test it in your home state should only be a few days turn around to get the test back.



get two and send in a sample of the new oil this will give you a base line for the test



cj hall